[Patton250]

Originally Posted by e90post_user

And just like that you resorted to insults - have a great day

What? You called us all stupid. Including BMW design engineers. Just because you did it in a polite and nonchalant way doesn’t take away from the fact that you did it. I’m not offended by the way. Try Twitter. That place is brutal.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

Absolutely, which is why there will be more M340i's sold than M3's. But the point is not to compare the M3 to the M340i, it's to compare this M3 to M3's of the past. My point was this generation of M3 may sell more than previous generation of M3's because it has options which generally appeal more to the non-enthusiast community (torque converter auto and AWD, etc). So you'll get a higher take-rate among the non-enthusiast community which would have historically settled for the 340i or below simply because they found the M3 unapproachable from a drivability standpoint. Again, we're talking in relative terms, not absolute terms.

What'll be interesting to see is cannibalization of mid-tier G2x sales as a result of the more drivable nature of the G8x. While I'd assume most consumers are price sensitive, there's a few who are price insensitive to the extent that they can afford an M3 but may have in the past opted to go with a 340i or such.

In any case, I think it's a reasonable assumption that the more approachable nature of the G8x will result in increased sales outside the enthusiast community.

That’s exactly why I bought it. Plus because of the new suspension system and the fact it didn’t have DCT. Plus as I stated before I think it’s better looking than the F80. However I think the F80 is very good looking also and had it been a faster car, had better shocks and better technology I would’ve picked up a used one. But the ones I test drove we’re not fun for more than 15 minutes. That’s just my opinion. I don’t want a full-time race car is a daily. Especially one that wasn’t even as fast as my very comfortable, tuned Mercedes C450.

[MmmmmM2]

It isn't that bad in person. That being said, I think my M2C looks better but I'm sure G8X owners could give 2 shits about what I think.

[2 SLOW]

Originally Posted by MmmmmM2

It isn't that bad in person. That being said, I think my M2C looks better but I'm sure G8X owners could give 2 shits about what I think.

Nobody probably cares.

But I do think the M2 looks better than the equivalent M4. Seems like a properly designed coupe rather than something that seems like an afterthought like the last couple generations of M4/M3 coupes.

[Flacht3]

Originally Posted by Patton250

YouTube creators are trying to pander to everyone. That’s just a given and obvious.

So then they're trying to pander to both F8X and G8X owners? Logic doesn't check out.

Maybe sometimes people legitimately don't like something. Other times, maybe they legitimately do. Sometimes it really is that simple.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by Flacht3

So then they're trying to pander to both F8X and G8X owners? Logic doesn't check out.

Maybe sometimes people legitimately don't like something. Other times, maybe they legitimately do. Sometimes it really is that simple.

The logic is spot on. They get paid by clicks

The other part I agree with you. Some people just don’t like it. Those people wish they were greater in number so they could tell those BMW design engineers just how stupid they are but unfortunately they are not that big a number and sales prove that. But at this point I’m beating a dead horse.

[e90post_user]

Originally Posted by Patton250

What? You called us all stupid. Including BMW design engineers. Just because you did it in a polite and nonchalant way doesn’t take away from the fact that you did it. I’m not offended by the way. Try Twitter. That place is brutal.

Nope, you called your BMW fellow members stupid - reread your own posts.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by e90post_user

Nope, you called your BMW fellow members stupid - reread your own posts.

This has to be one of the best spin jobs I’ve ever read. Well done.

On a sidenote do you often do this? I mean go to a forum where there are a group of people that purchased something and are giving praise to it but then chime in and tell them all how much you don’t like it? As I said before I don’t like the Ford Mustang. I think it’s ugly and always have. One of my best friends owns one. The last thing I would ever do is tell him how ugly his car is or go to a Ford Mustang GT forum and tell them all how ugly their cars are. It just never dawned on me to do that. I’m sure you participated heavily in the G80 bash threads when BMW first released the pictures last fall but it seems you didn’t get your fill from that. The best way you can show your disgust with BMW for their new design features is to not buy their product. In fact there is no better way than that. Anything past that is mere trolling at best and being abusive at worst.

[CityLife]

Originally Posted by Patton250

Bro lol. This is coming from a guy that has a car with an upside down triangle grille???

Follow the money. That will answer all your questions as to where it will be in history and as to where you are personally in the crowd

I am not sure what you mean by follow the money, but historically sales have little do with how a car is perceived in the future. The bangle 7 was one of the best selling BMWs ever, but it is not a design enthusiasts of the brand are proud of. Sales historically have to do with macro economics and the over all economy. You can not compare sales of this car vs. prior gen, you have to compare the market share of the car as a percentage vs. it's peer group.

[CityLife]

Originally Posted by kamichael

I am not sure if anyone has started a thread about this yet, but I am honestly bothered by so many of the "car reviewer's" description of the G80/G82 design. In the articles that I have read and on the videos that I have watched, I keep hearing them criticize the car's front end and other design aesthetics. I have repeatedly heard the phrase "it's not that bad in person" - as if that was supposed to make it acceptable or sound any better. They often say this even when they like the design. This is not a complementary way of describing the car's design and does not give it credit. It would be better to say something more positive like "it actually looks good in person" rather than "it's not that bad in person." I know this has gotten way too much attention in the car (social) media world, so I have tried to take it with a grain of salt. They say that beauty is in the eye of the beholder and I would argue that design is a very subjective, opinion based topic. Fortunately, this car has performed well and most people have applauded it for that. I just wish the design critics could see what most of us here see - an aggressive and spot on design that will get noticed not for being unattractive, but the contrary. I mean honestly, it's actually not that bad in person!

I am not sure why it bothers people who own this car what reviewers say, you've already purchased a car that is not very popular among the social media crowd, so you've shown you buy and enjoy what you like. I actually had the same reaction when seeing this car in person, I thought the car looked good, and the grills were not bad in person with certain colors. I did find myself really staring at them, trying to decide if I liked them or not, it is very polarizing.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by CityLife

I am not sure why it bothers people who own this car what reviewers say, you've already purchased a car that is not very popular among the social media crowd, so you've shown you buy and enjoy what you like. I actually had the same reaction when seeing this car in person, I thought the car looked good, and the grills were not bad in person with certain colors. I did find myself really staring at them, trying to decide if I liked them or not, it is very polarizing.

This is a small, granted very loud, but small percentage of the social media crowd. I never understood why people think because a small group is loud they represent a large group of people. Twitter seems to think they speak for the country when a few dozen fanatics throw a fit about any particular subject. The New York Times and most of the 24 hour news sites will report it like it’s popular opinion when the truth is it’s only a small group of people on Twitter. Look at most of the comments on these very YouTube videos the OP was speaking of and the vast majority of commentators love the car. It’s just the people that don’t love it are the loudest and most consistent and in most cases quite mean and angry. Loud, mean and angry doesn’t make a representation of most people. It just makes them loud mean and angry.

[Jimjamz]

I think it's fair to say BMW could have built this same car with a design that would have been universally acclaimed. Instead they chose a design that is polarising. If you have a group of active haters out there this 'it's not that bad' mentality is a natural consequence. It was something BMW signed up to intentionally and probably want.

Some owners probably aren't used to owning cars with designs others actively hate. But that's part of the game for these cars that need to cut through into the public psyche. Good on M for going there. It's added passion to autos again.

[Blindside_137]

Wanted to bump this because I keep repeating, the grille isn't my major issue, it's the design of the lower side intakes and the fact they have them more centrally located compared to a more lateral position out to the sides/edges of the bumper of the F8x/E9x/E46 gen.

I did a little edit on my phone of the CSL to show how it can look a decent bit better with an air curtain/fang. Then another that pushes the vent more outside.

I wish of all these companies that keep trying to improve the front end just accept the grille and work around making the front end just appear more cohesive/aggressive.

[02M3ForMe]

That’s a nice edit. My initial reaction was that they uncovered more of the CS/CSL mule. I agree that adding aggressiveness helps the overall look.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by Patton250

No. Nope. You can only go by overall sales. That is absolutely the only way to measure somethings popularity. Now you can also say the same thing 10 years from now how well it sells in the used market. That will be an indicator as well but we won’t know that for quite some time. But for now the only measurement is overall sales. That’s it.

Purely from an analytical mindset, this would not be a sound representation. CityLife has it correct in calling out economic factors which muddy the waters for utilizing absolute sales as a metric for determining success.

For example, if the auto market is booming in general, and the G80 naturally sells more than the F80, but loses significant market share to the RS5/C63, would we still call it a success? Conversely, if the auto market is seeing a depression in overall car sales, and the G80 as a result sells less than the F80, but in the process gains significant market share over the RS5/C63, do we consider it a failure?

The answer in both scenarios is, probably not. Numerous factors need to be considered when evaluating if something is a sales "success" or "failure". Absolute sales figures only represent a part of the story.

[e90post_user]

Originally Posted by Patton250

This has to be one of the best spin jobs I’ve ever read. Well done.

On a sidenote do you often do this? I mean go to a forum where there are a group of people that purchased something and are giving praise to it but then chime in and tell them all how much you don’t like it? As I said before I don’t like the Ford Mustang. I think it’s ugly and always have. One of my best friends owns one. The last thing I would ever do is tell him how ugly his car is or go to a Ford Mustang GT forum and tell them all how ugly their cars are. It just never dawned on me to do that. I’m sure you participated heavily in the G80 bash threads when BMW first released the pictures last fall but it seems you didn’t get your fill from that. The best way you can show your disgust with BMW for their new design features is to not buy their product. In fact there is no better way than that. Anything past that is mere trolling at best and being abusive at worst.

You are the only one spinning here.
I just voiced my opinion, and you got all up in arms.
Yes, G80 is an ugly car in my opinion. Is that against the rules to present it that way? Do you own this board to tell who can and cannot say something negative about a car? And don’t tell me to go somewhere else if I don’t like what you have. I’m as much a BMW owner as most here. Anyway, done with this. Peace…

[deli333]

There are so many people who wanted to move so badly. I know many people, including me, waited for the new generation, but after seeing it they preferred to invest more into their f8x.

It’s a really ugly design, not only the front end. I have seen one that is liveable when black from front but the g82 sides bleed my eyes. g80 seemed ok from sides.

I love fire orange but that g8x is super ugly. It shows the over contrast between gloss black and orange alot. Gloss black is a very dangerous colour when used too much whether in interior or exterior. To me especially bright color g8x cars look like overmodified type r.

[TrentMeister]

Originally Posted by deli333

Its a really ugly design, not only the front end. I have seen one that is liveable when black from front but the g82 sides bleed my eyes. g80 seemed ok from sides.

F8x has the same side design as the new Toyota minivans. And MANY other cars. It's old news.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

Purely from an analytical mindset, this would not be a sound representation. CityLife has it correct in calling out economic factors which muddy the waters for utilizing absolute sales as a metric for determining success.

For example, if the auto market is booming in general, and the G80 naturally sells more than the F80, but loses significant market share to the RS5/C63, would we still call it a success? Conversely, if the auto market is seeing a depression in overall car sales, and the G80 as a result sells less than the F80, but in the process gains significant market share over the RS5/C63, do we consider it a failure?

The answer in both scenarios is, probably not. Numerous factors need to be considered when evaluating if something is a sales "success" or "failure". Absolute sales figures only represent a part of the story.

You just keep digging that “it can’t be more popular then the F80” hole deeper.

Brother I’ll leave it at this. There are so many bad ass, cool fast cars you can buy from 70K to 100K. I think you can agree with that. So whether the car market is booming or not you still can only measure a particular model cars success based off of sales number. That’s it. That’s all you got. Another example of measuring sales is how is BMW going to judge whether or not their choice to offer a Manual transmission M3 was a success. It can only be how many manual transmission M3’s they sold as well as a percentage of sales to the overall model. How else would they determine whether or not the MT was a success or the G80 in general? BMW forum comments? Do you think BMWs Board of Directors will higher a panel to count negative comments on the Internet to determine whether or not the new M3 design is a success? Or do you think perhaps they will look at the sales numbers at the end of the production cycle?

Listen at the end of the day it might be a total disaster for the new G80. Four years from now all the haters might be on this very forum saying see I told you so. I assure you sure you if over the next four years the sales numbers suck the haters will be citing those numbers and they will have every right to do so. And whether the the car market is doing well or not will make zero difference on how the success of the model is measured in the overall sports/luxury car industry. BMW will determine the success of it based off of sales numbers compared to other vehicles in the same likeness and price range as well as how it did compared to the previous design which some of your claim is less/not “controversial”.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by Patton250

And whether the the car market is doing well or not will make zero difference on how the success of the model is measured in the overall sports/luxury car industry. BMW will determine the success of it based off of sales numbers compared to other vehicles in the same likeness and price range as well as how it did compared to the previous design which some of your claim is less/not “controversial”.

You literally just contradicted yourself there. So the car market makes no difference but how the G8x did compared to other vehicles in its class does? The other cars in the class are a representation of the market conditions for this class. And how that market performs plays a factor in determining if the G8x is a success or failure.

At this point I'm not sure if you're just trolling or if you really don't understand basic analytical concepts. I never claimed it "can't be more popular than the F80". In fact I stated it will likely sell more than the F80 due to features offered which appeal to non-enthusiasts (which represent a much larger number of car buyers than enthusiasts - thus why BMW is targeting them by making this generation more refined and approachable).

The point here is that absolute sales figures only paint part of the picture. You need to consider all factors to determine if something can be considered a success or a failure.

You have to consider things like:
Sales figures
Market share
Economic conditions (i.e. many companies are finding it difficult to use 2020 data reliably since covid caused havoc on supply chains, and continues to into 2021)
etc.

Notice how nowhere in my factors to consider did I mention "forum comments". Simply "following the money" is such a rudimentary approach.

[barryc365]

I thought the thread 'is this your first M car' was really interesting.

BMW have seem to won a tonne of new customers with this car and design so they're doing something right.

No one can seem to get their hands on them easily with some regions charging $20k
Over MSRP.

People don't like change so when the traditional kidney grills go out the window, people are understandably uncomfortable but over time that changes and people's perceptions change.

Every M3 has been radically different than the last. This one is no different.

For those who have their G80's, The amount of positive comments we all get says a lot. People love this car in person in my experience

It's definitely a big change in design. My first reaction to the grill was 'that's different' but I think a lot of people take the word of Chris Harris et al as gospel when in fact he's just trying to be entertaining and get views like everyone else. Controversy = clicks

[DoubleDave]

The changes in the sport sedan segment is another driver of the popularity of this car.

Available with a manual, keeping a high(ish) displacement turbo six, RWD standard.

Those choices are either non-existent or few at this price point.