[Ghostriderf80]

Originally Posted by ///M4TT

So much being made of the cosmetics. But if the G8x performs the way BMW says it will, these new design cues will serve as benchmarks of distinction. Commemorating the time they put 500hp to the ground.

Besides, haven't any of you ever woke up next to a girl that didn't meet your ideals for Mrs. Right? How many of you are married to her? It's called compromise people. Personally, I'd rather have an ugly girl that's "built for speed" than settle for less just because she's a looker.

I own a 2018 M4 competition and love it but I'm a G82 buyer given the upgrades to performance. I'll continue to pay BMW money for the engineering and adapt to the rest. She may not be Mrs. Right, but she's definitely Mrs. Right now.

The answer is MERCEDES AMG GTR.

Ya looker and build for speed.

I don't settle for less. It's sad to change but hey if she needs a full nose job and a new set of tits and ass. It's just not worth it

[Ghostriderf80]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Found this comparo here. What was seen cannot be unseen.

Attachment 2166839

It's so ugly. I cannot get this car.

Once first lci is out maybe it will look better.

for now I am gonna go with the amg gtr. It's a nice big grill.

I am sure it can be further tweaked to be faster.

Sad to see bmw go ugly.

A butherface sad.

BMW you made me sad. :

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by Kryptos

However enthusiastic, the small population of current owners isn't a big enough market to support the M division over the next 15+ years. Most who focus on performance over aesthetics will stay and, while this certainly isn't true for everyone on this forum, if you do hate this design, there's a reasonable chance that it simply means you're not the target demo anymore

It's not sound reasoning at all; it's hopes, guesses, and speculation.

What's not hopes and guesses is that current BMW market growth has come from a boom population of millenials (as big as baby boomers), and a booming record economy for the last 10 years.

And - BMW has been smart enough not to fuck up these massively favorably tail winds by releasing cool looking designs that have allowed them to expand the ///M brand to new buyers wanting "the top-of-line 3-series"

The thing is, those favorable tail winds have also powered all of the other auto manufacturers so now there are a shit-load of options for people "who focus on performance over aesthetics".

Performance people don't need to stay with BMW! They don't need to buy an ugly high performance car when there are many better looking options available.

This all means unless BMW has data saying this design really appeals to a HUGE number of people WHO DON'T CURRENTLY BUY BMW, but would with this new fugly design, it's a hopes and dreams strategy.

Look, I hope they do have the data saying there's a huge untapped ugly-car buyer that'll switch to BMW
, I just don't think that's probable.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by Kryptos

However enthusiastic, the small population of current owners isn't a big enough market to support the M division over the next 15+ years. Most who focus on performance over aesthetics will stay and, while this certainly isn't true for everyone on this forum, if you do hate this design, there's a reasonable chance that it simply means you're not the target demo anymore

It's not sound reasoning at all; but it is sound hopes, guesses, and speculation.

What's not hopes and guesses is that current BMW market growth has come from a boom population of millenials (as big as baby boomers), and a booming record economy for the last 10 years (and favorable tax laws and labor markets).

And - BMW has been smart enough not to fuck up these massively favorably tail winds by releasing cool looking designs that have allowed them to expand the ///M brand, and BMW, to new buyers wanting "the top-of-line 3-series" (we've all seen the posts here - let's face it)

The thing is, those favorable tail winds have also powered all of the other auto manufacturers and now there are a shit-load of options for people "who focus on performance over aesthetics": MB, Audi, Porsche, USA brands, a whole new market segment in Tesla, etc

Performance people don't need to stay with BMW! They don't need to buy an ugly high performance car when there are many better looking options available. (to be fair, BMW can fix some of this with leasing and other financial incentives - that could be the plan)

This means unless BMW has data saying this design really appeals to a HUGE number of people WHO DON'T CURRENTLY BUY BMW, but would with this new fugly design, it's a hopes and dreams strategy. (or maybe Xi told BMW he wants huge snout grilles or no selling in China?)

Look, I hope BMW does have the data saying there's a huge untapped "bold new design" buyer that'll switch to BMW (maybe China?), I just don't think that's probable because I don't think that market exists no matter how much you love the new look.

[WWM3]

Originally Posted by solstice

Yes, they are prisoners of their own design success. They have to evolve and can never really change.

They have evolved the design of their iconic car over many generations. I find it hard to believe that the designers would label themselves as prisoners.

There is no pressure to deliver some new design with each generation to attract buzz and new customers. They are not prisoned by the success but instead emboldened to evolve the greatness established over many generations.

[enigma99a]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

You guys have to be fair in your assessments. IF the car is a flop, then the discussion about screwing up becomes valid. The car hasn't even been fully revealed nor has it hit dealers yet, and we're already talking about sales failures and taking a page out of Porsche and Coca Cola's "Swallowed Pride" playbook. I can understand people being dissatisfied with the new direction, but the cart is wayyyyyyy before the horse on this one.

I am a current F80 owner that was nearly for sure going to get the G80. Now, I am certainly not going that direction. I must be in the minority and that is no indicator. Yeah?

[trey100]

Originally Posted by solstice

Are you referring to the concept or the leak? As for the leaked picture that this thread begin with I don't see anything that is not cohesive. It looks perfectly symmetrical with cohesive angles between the grilles, the intake fins, bumper and the lip. Nothing seems out of place, awkward, distorted or otherwise weird. Go back and study the picture closely and tell me what you see as non-cohesive?

Also look at the depth/3D perception created by the 1st fin from the grille frame and the 2nd fin that is only partly visible. It looks like the 2nd starts high on the bumper and reaches out towards the front of the lip while the 1st fin is recessed on the lip and attached underneath the bumper. I can't wait to see the rest of the aero together with the flared front fenders. It should look very aggressive.

Yes the leaked photo and everything we have seen before. It's is out of scale and to make matters worse the sharp, hard shape is not in line with the other parts of the car. It's not a sophisticated shaped grille. It looks like what a 3rd grader would draw.

[trey100]

Originally Posted by solstice

Everything about the picture's environment is unflattering, lightning, color of the car, lack of width perception due to obstacles etc. but I truly believe it's a real photo of a real pre-production M3. That said I think seeing the whole car in a better environment will make it look quite different and better than seeing just these few elements in the picture.

I hope you are right. One detail that isn't coming through yet is that the front end now has this sharp cut vertically and it's possible that will read differently in person but a beautiful car shouldn't need this much work.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by MTCruising

A grille is a pretty big (see what I did there ) part of a car. Whether you love the new grille or not, aesthetics are a major part of the buying decision. I would say this is especially true for an enthusiasts vehicle marketed to people who love cars and are willing to spend upwards of $100k on them. Yes, part of this is the performance, but it's also because I think it looks good even when I look at in my garage. If I can't look at my very expensive toy without a smile then it's just an expensive box with wheels until it's on the track.

Originally Posted by StickForLife

I can't justify to myself spending $80,000 on a car that I can't park and glance back with a grin as I walk away. I can't have a car that I would be ashamed to hide away for fear of "what would the neighbors think?" (...)
Lastly, to all who represent the manufacturer and are listening. BMW, remember that loyalty built upon strong brand foundations keeps leasers and buyers coming back for more. Tread upon that loyalty, and you will forever lose the guaranteed sale of so many like me. Pursuing a strategy to grow the brand with new sales in the short term while forsaking loyalists in the long term is madness and will lead to ruin over the long haul. There are only so many people who can afford these cars in the world...

Or to quote BMW M:

[solstice]

Originally Posted by trey100

I hope you are right. One detail that isn't coming through yet is that the front end now has this sharp cut vertically and it's possible that will read differently in person but a beautiful car shouldn't need this much work.

Hopefully someone on the internet will soon make new good G80 renders from this leak and that of the rear of the car. It should give us a better idea of how cohesive or not design is.

[Kryptos]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

It's not sound reasoning at all; but it is sound hopes, guesses, and speculation.

What's not hopes and guesses is that current BMW market growth has come from a boom population of millenials (as big as baby boomers), and a booming record economy for the last 10 years (and favorable tax laws and labor markets).

And - BMW has been smart enough not to fuck up these massively favorably tail winds by releasing cool looking designs that have allowed them to expand the ///M brand, and BMW, to new buyers wanting "the top-of-line 3-series" (we've all seen the posts here - let's face it)

The thing is, those favorable tail winds have also powered all of the other auto manufacturers and now there are a shit-load of options for people "who focus on performance over aesthetics": MB, Audi, Porsche, USA brands, a whole new market segment in Tesla, etc

Performance people don't need to stay with BMW! They don't need to buy an ugly high performance car when there are many better looking options available. (to be fair, BMW can fix some of this with leasing and other financial incentives - that could be the plan)

This means unless BMW has data saying this design really appeals to a HUGE number of people WHO DON'T CURRENTLY BUY BMW, but would with this new fugly design, it's a hopes and dreams strategy. (or maybe Xi told BMW he wants huge snout grilles or no selling in China?)

Look, I hope BMW does have the data saying there's a huge untapped "bold new design" buyer that'll switch to BMW (maybe China?), I just don't think that's probable because I don't think that market exists no matter how much you love the new look.

No, you’re probably right now that I think about it. A company with €100B in annual revenues probably just pulled the design out of a hat, crossed their fingers, held their breath and ran with it rather than gathering any data. That’s much more plausible than concluding that the microcosm within a microcosm that is this forum is the outlier rather than the heart of the Gaussian distribution that describes their target market. It’s a normal human trait to think that you and your opinions are more more important than they actually are (especially when it comes to something we’re all very passionate about), but here’s some nice empirical proof that that’s not always the case.

[pharding]

I think that it is awesome. Very cool.

[F85MTuNED]

Still waiting to SEE the actual production vehicle before I pass judgement.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by Kryptos

No, you’re probably right now that I think about it. A company with €100B in annual revenues probably just pulled the design out of a hat, crossed their fingers, held their breath and ran with it rather than gathering any data. That’s much more plausible than concluding that the microcosm within a microcosm that is this forum is the outlier rather than the heart of the Gaussian distribution that describes their target market. It’s a normal human trait to think that you and your opinions are more more important than they actually are (especially when it comes to something we’re all very passionate about), but here’s some nice empirical proof that that’s not always the case.

A traditional German engineering company from Bavaria no less. This decision has been vetted against a handful of other options by many layers of analysis and approved by multiple groups before it reached the top brass and ultimately was signed off, count on it.

[solstice]

Personally I can’t fathom how anyone would prefer their G80 to look like this with the addition of minor M3 styling cues. Do you really prefer that and think this is an exciting design?



THIS is a bit of an unsightly mess, not the concept nor the leak.

[evanescent03]

Originally Posted by Kryptos

My reaction to the concept 4 was the same. I think it's awful. Not because it's big, because it's just poorly incorporated into the rest of the car (and anything with thick chrome borders makes me cringe).

Big grilles aren't an issue at all if they're done right and I don't think the spy shot looks anything like the concept 4, thankfully. Maybe I'll hate the final product, but that still won't alter the veracity of anything I stated above.

Well said. This has been my stance. I didn't believe in the "big grilles" because all the renders made it look very poorly integrated into the overall design... I just hope it all comes together in the end ... at least in some colors

[Jockey]

Originally Posted by solstice

A traditional German engineering company from Bavaria no less. This decision has been vetted against a handful of other options by many layers of analysis and approved by multiple groups before it reached the top brass and ultimately was signed off, count on it.

Which is still flawed logic demonstrated by numerous failures by corporations before.

BMW nor the M division is immune to it.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by Jockey

Which is still flawed logic demonstrated by numerous failures by corporations before.

BMW nor the M division is immune to it.

I didn’t say they were I simply stated that the likely hood of a company with BMW’s culture of processes, order, precision etc. will allow for a poorly vetted design to pass through the system is less than zero.

[Jockey]

Originally Posted by solstice

I didn’t say they were I simply stated that the likely hood of a company with BMW’s culture of processes, order, precision etc. will allow for a poorly vetted design to pass through the system is less than zero.

And everyone but one engineer thought the Challenger was safe to fly because of their analysis and processes.

[///Mthusiast]

Originally Posted by Jockey

And everyone but one engineer thought the Challenger was safe to fly because of their analysis and processes.

Agreed 100%. More recent case in point - Boeing 737 max

[MFNATIK]

Originally Posted by Kryptos

No, you’re probably right now that I think about it. A company with €100B in annual revenues probably just pulled the design out of a hat, crossed their fingers, held their breath and ran with it rather than gathering any data. That’s much more plausible than concluding that the microcosm within a microcosm that is this forum is the outlier rather than the heart of the Gaussian distribution that describes their target market. It’s a normal human trait to think that you and your opinions are more more important than they actually are (especially when it comes to something we’re all very passionate about), but here’s some nice empirical proof that that’s not always the case.

Originally Posted by solstice

A traditional German engineering company from Bavaria no less. This decision has been vetted against a handful of other options by many layers of analysis and approved by multiple groups before it reached the top brass and ultimately was signed off, count on it.

Originally Posted by ///Mthusiast

Agreed 100%. More recent case in point - Boeing 737 max

Originally Posted by Jockey

And everyone but one engineer thought the Challenger was safe to fly because of their analysis and processes.

I felt these point and counterpoints all went together we'll

[solstice]

Originally Posted by ///Mthusiast

Agreed 100%. More recent case in point - Boeing 737 max

Sure, good process and due diligence can fail you, so once again I never said it can’t but it’s all you can do, trust your process and your people until proven wrong.

We don’t know what the analysis showed, that success will be instant at the official launch, that it will take a little while and then catchup ( digital camera style ) etc. so when BMW executives expect proof of success is also unknown. It sure ain’t prior to the official launch that’s for sure.