[Forzanerazzurri]

Those Trofeo RS

[BackOnBlack]

Originally Posted by / / / M3

Sure. Just ask the people who own these "naturally aspirated manually shifted cars".

https://www.mustang7g.com/forums/thr...plenty.158327/

Ford is not exactly known for building road cars that you can take straight to the track. Even the GT350 was known for having overheating issues.

That’s the regular GT, DH has the additional oil cooler and should not have the same issue.

[M4Tejas]

Great video.

Just sold our 2012 from our garage inventory. Great New York guy, enthusiast flew down from Long Island and bought it. It was prepared carefully since the time I bought it new, Maxwell Ford in Austin. It was just time to let it go. 450 RWHP with a Tremec 6-speed close ratio box. Too much too list. Brembos etc. Hand extruded Boss intake. Multiple details. McLeod RXT dual ceramic clutch, LW steel flywheel. 10 pages of mods. 75k plus. Vorshlag worked it over good. Same seat frames, foam as DH. My cousin, who just retired (Michigan) was over the program, VP for Lear. All the Recaro's for years are licensed Recaro's through Lear. Big 3 in the mix. I am a car guy.

trackmustangsonline.com. Old school guys been racing them for well over 20 years.....great info source for racers

I had an 89 Notchback. Notchback stiff with all OEM riveted (metal pan OEM parts) underpinnings available from Ford Special Services Vehicle parts bin. Jason was running the hatchback in the video (heavy) Boris Said ran one, notchback/trunk, in Nevada hitting 189 mph on the long straight! Fox body, when they had those unlimited on road races in Nevada. I had mine up to about 145 which was flying for the year. Modded as expected. M2300 Ford Motorsport rear disc brake kit etc.... Matt Farah has one worked over good. Riveted flares, etc. My 89 used to sit up at Charlie Hillard Ford Automall in Fort Worth. Charlie would not support us. My buddies were mechanics and parts runners for the dealer. I ran parts for awhile back in 90. Charlie was the Hollywood stunt pilot for the Iron Eagle franchise. Lou Gossett Jr. & Charlie, the limos pulled inside after a local premier, and those fuckers partied. Not invited. We were always working on my car on the lift, mods etc. The cars bring back good memories, good for the soul.

[M4Tejas]

It flew....coming from a Comp owner. Handled reasonably well, Koni, springs etc. The motor was a GEN1. There were issue(s) with various sensors etc. A shit load of TSB's. As the Coyote V8 furthers in development the motor becomes more reliable. I am a car guy. NO brand loyalty.

WIKI - Gen 4 update
In 2023, for the 2024 model year, the Mustang will debut with the 4th generation of the Coyote engine. It will produce 480 hp (358 kW) and 415 lb⋅ft (563 N⋅m) in the GT trim level, 486 hp (362 kW) and 418 lb⋅ft (567 N⋅m) with the Active Performance Exhaust option, and 500 hp (373 kW) and 418 lb⋅ft (567 N⋅m) in the Dark Horse trim level.[23] Updates include:

Revised 4 into 1 exhaust manifold
Intake manifold with dual 80mm throttle bodies
The Dark Horse will also receive:

Revised camshafts
Forged piston rods from the 5.2L Predator engine

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

What would BMW need to respond with though? The Dark Horse was on a Trofeo RS tire and the M4 a Michelin 4S (the Trofeo RS is even better than a Cup2R) and yet the M4 was only 1 tenth behind on track. Even those out and the M4 would be significantly faster. They are much closer in pricepoint now, and the M4 has been out for several years and still remains the benchmark for the segment by some margin. That's my take anyway...and I do think the DH is a great car.

I agree fully the DH is a great car.

What I'm thinking is Bmw should make the G8x platform better... Kind of like how ford, gm and ram fight it out. Friendly competition always is better for the consumer.

[Forzanerazzurri]

Todd you guys the M4 looked like a Mustang

['Cane]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

Is that Frozen Sakhir Orange?

Def looks like.

[Rambler]

The Mustang used to be the cheaper, more bang for your buck alternative. The DH and manual M3s are pretty close in price now.

[M4Tejas]

[ChrisM4]

Originally Posted by FC4

Just so we're clear, you're saying that you think a naturally aspirated manually-shifted car is more likely to overheat on a track than a twin-turbocharged car with a torque converter auto?

LOL. Sure.

100%

I’m sure the Dark Horse has improved cooling from earlier versions but the G80-82 comp in stock form will not overheat on track. It’s a beast. You’ll wear out tires/boil the stock brake fluid first.

I raced V8 manual cars for ~25 years, the domestics often needed cooling upgrades for extended lapping, even the specialty models like the ZL1, CTS-V etc. would get hot oil and IAT2 temps without improved cooling. Mustangs had numerous issues with diff temps and engine oil temps in the past as well.

The G80-82 is a well sorted car for lapping.

[/ / / M3]

Originally Posted by ChrisM4

100%

I’m sure the Dark Horse has improved cooling from earlier versions but the G80-82 comp in stock form will not overheat on track. It’s a beast. You’ll wear out tires/boil the stock brake fluid first.

I raced V8 manual cars for ~25 years, the domestics often needed cooling upgrades for extended lapping, even the specialty models like the ZL1, CTS-V etc. would get hot oil and IAT2 temps without improved cooling. Mustangs had numerous issues with diff temps and engine oil temps in the past as well.

The G80-82 is a well sorted car for lapping.

Not surprised by this. M cars have always been designed for track use while Mustangs, Camaros and the like are meant for the drag strip (which is way Ford was slow to abandon the solid rear axle). You don't have to worry about cooling too much if the race only lasts a few seconds.

[Dave07997S]

Originally Posted by / / / M3

Sure. Just ask the people who own these "naturally aspirated manually shifted cars".

https://www.mustang7g.com/forums/thr...plenty.158327/

Ford is not exactly known for building road cars that you can take straight to the track. Even the GT350 was known for having overheating issues.

The 2016 GT350s yes if they didnt have the track pack. After 2017 they all got the better cooling. The DH gets the track cooling as standard.

[Vectors2final]

Originally Posted by BackOnBlack

That’s the regular GT, DH has the additional oil cooler and should not have the same issue.

I believe the same issues were prominent in the Mach1 because it was missing the coolers from the GT350.

Originally Posted by Dave07997S

The 2016 GT350s yes if they didnt have the track pack. After 2017 they all got the better cooling. The DH gets the track cooling as standard.

You would think they would have learned their lessons from the GT350 and Mach1, but I guess not.

Maybe the PP1/PP2 will get coolers? I haven't looked at any of the S650 specs and options.

[Hawkdog]

Fantastic video and I don’t think someone could go wrong buying an M4 or the dark horse, but really getting sick of Detroit throwing near-race rubber on their cars for these magazine tests. I know you could argue everyone else can do it too, and I would imagine they all probably will at some point, but it’s really preventing the reviewers from being able to make apples to apples comparisons of new cars these days. I also wonder how much of the dark horse’s heralded braking performance is a result of those tires.

[See5]

Originally Posted by Vectors2final

I believe the same issues were prominent in the Mach1 because it was missing the coolers from the GT350.





You would think they would have learned their lessons from the GT350 and Mach1, but I guess not.

Maybe the PP1/PP2 will get coolers? I haven't looked at any of the S650 specs and options.

No, the Mach 1 has the oil/trans/diff coolers from the GT350. Same with the Dark Horse.

They are fine at the track. The GT's however, not made for track work out of the box. No different than an M340.

[G MONEY]

You lost me at Mustang

[Vectors2final]

Originally Posted by See5

No, the Mach 1 has the oil/trans/diff coolers from the GT350. Same with the Dark Horse.

They are fine at the track. The GT's however, not made for track work out of the box. No different than an M340.

I see - maybe it was the PP2 I remembered, but it's been a minute.

[Polo08816]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

What would BMW need to respond with though? The Dark Horse was on a Trofeo RS tire and the M4 a Michelin 4S (the Trofeo RS is even better than a Cup2R) and yet the M4 was only 1 tenth behind on track. Even those out and the M4 would be significantly faster. They are much closer in pricepoint now, and the M4 has been out for several years and still remains the benchmark for the segment by some margin. That's my take anyway...and I do think the DH is a great car.

M3/M4 is a faster car. However, if the car is being tracked extensively/frequently, and you're not sponsored or actually wealthy, I think the DH is a better option. The catastrophic repair costs would be significantly lower.

My guess is that both the M2/M3/M4 and DH are sufficiently fast enough, that the differentiating factor is going to be driver ability.

[Trevorr]

IDK, my mustang does track days all day long without any cooling issues, and is significantly faster than the m4

I think the carbon fiber wheels help IDK

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by G MONEY

You lost me at Mustang

And yet you clicked on the thread with Mustang in the title....and took the time to post.

Curious.

[G MONEY]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

And yet you clicked on the thread with Mustang in the title....and took the time to post.

Curious.

Just felt like trolling the Mustang
Fans. I know it was a waste of 6 seconds of my life. Thanks for the reply ninja

[Exotic_m3]

Dark horse looks nice but the driving dynamic and AWD on the some M options make it the stand out choice for me.