[Bimmerfun82]

10,000 orders for the Macan when it’s replacing an ICE Macan doesn’t seem too good. How many did they sell of the ICE version? Tesla sells 25,000 Y’s per week.

The Macan sold 27,000 in the US alone last year. So… 10,000 global orders seems like normal demand.

Why was Porsche forced to do this to the Macan and 718? BMW still sells the M variants. Is it because their Taycan didn’t sell well enough?

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

10,000 orders for the Macan when it’s replacing an ICE Macan doesn’t seem too good. How many did they sell of the ICE version? Tesla sells 25,000 Y’s per week.

The Macan sold 27,000 in the US alone last year. So… 10,000 global orders seems like normal demand.

Why was Porsche forced to do this to the Macan and 718? BMW still sells the M variants. Is it because their Taycan didn’t sell well enough?

Porsche and Audi invested so much money and resources to the PPE platform that they simply can't turn back now. It's unfortunate. The EU scared automakers so much with their deadlines and this is the result. Thankfully a few OEMs like BMW have at least made their next gen vehicles backward (ICE) compatible.

[DFW_M]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

Let's look at is this way, the S is now the old GTS and the GTS is the old turbo. I personally don't think the new GTS feels nearly 440 hp nor do I find it do be a worthwhile step over the S for the 20-30K more. If you were going the way of the Macan, either are good, but the S is much more bang for the buck. Only real reason to go for the GTS is if you want the GTS package with the wheels, stitching etc.
IMO, having now driven the current gen X3M and Stelvio Quad, one of those two would be my option if you want the closest thing to an M3 in an SUV. The X3M feels way more edgy and sport car than the Macan, but does ride a little stiffer, but the Stelvio has probably the best ride of them all and an engine that is nearly a match for the S58.

Thanks for the replay.
With Stelvio, I have two major and related concerns -- reliability and dealer availability/convenience. I will check if there is dealership availability close to me. We have multiple Porsche and BMW dealerships in the DFW area.
A good friend of mine went from F80 to X3M to G87. The X3M was the least favorite of the 3 for him

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by DFW_M

Thanks for the replay.
With Stelvio, I have two major and related concerns -- reliability and dealer availability/convenience. I will check if there is dealership availability close to me. We have multiple Porsche and BMW dealerships in the DFW area.
A good friend of mine went from F80 to X3M to G87. The X3M was the least favorite of the 3 for him

The X3M has a suspension made out of granite. Ride is BRUTAL. I heard they softened it with the facelift but not sure they can backpedal enough. When that generation of X3 debuted, it got big enough that it could have potentially replaced our Cayenne. So I test drove it. I didn't make it a 1/4 mile out of the lot before I knew it was too stiff for me, and would be an absolute deal killer for my wife, since it would be her daily.

[Draper]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

10,000 orders for the Macan when it’s replacing an ICE Macan doesn’t seem too good. How many did they sell of the ICE version? Tesla sells 25,000 Y’s per week.

The Macan sold 27,000 in the US alone last year. So… 10,000 global orders seems like normal demand.

Why was Porsche forced to do this to the Macan and 718? BMW still sells the M variants. Is it because their Taycan didn’t sell well enough?

Just some data that indicates there is some demand for an EV Macan, and numbers aren’t going to drop to zero. Porsche has always been a semi-boutique brand so comparing them to Tesla, Toyota, or even BMW is always going to make their numbers seem small.

New EU regs means they can’t sell the current Macan or 718 without major changes, and I guess they decided those changes aren’t worth it at this point in the life cycle.

https://www.thedrive.com/news/porsch...ersecurity-law

Maybe they keep the ICE Macan and 718 in the US for the moment, but the 718 EV should be here next year.

https://www.caranddriver.com/porsche/718-ev

[bmwdrive]

Why would someone choose the Macan (EV or not) over the M3? Or why would someone choose to own both? It seems to me that the M3 has more room and is also better to drive. I guess ground clearance would be a reason if you have to deal with snow in the winter?

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by DFW_M

Thanks for the replay.
With Stelvio, I have two major and related concerns -- reliability and dealer availability/convenience. I will check if there is dealership availability close to me. We have multiple Porsche and BMW dealerships in the DFW area.
A good friend of mine went from F80 to X3M to G87. The X3M was the least favorite of the 3 for him

I believe Alfa Romeo was just deemed EU's most reliable brand was 2024 best initial car quality? The Quad models engines are derived from the motor in the 488/Cali T/Roma. Everyone I know who has had one had been in love with them and have said nothing but good things reliability wise.
Here is an interesting fact, in 2017 when the Giulia was released there were 11 service bulletins. The Panamera that same model year had nearly 300. Dealer network is something else entirely and valid, but form a driving perspective it's great.
The current model X3M IMO drove very well. Suspension much improved over the 1st gen which was overly harsh and brittle. I will say, the X3M did and does feel more sports car than the Macan and Stelvio which have a bit softer rides in comparison but nothing I'd say would sway me one way or the other.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

The X3M has a suspension made out of granite. Ride is BRUTAL. I heard they softened it with the facelift but not sure they can backpedal enough. When that generation of X3 debuted, it got big enough that it could have potentially replaced our Cayenne. So I test drove it. I didn't make it a 1/4 mile out of the lot before I knew it was too stiff for me, and would be an absolute deal killer for my wife, since it would be her daily.

Actually, I nearly bought an X3M and did take a 2022 for a nice test drive and the suspension was not bad at all considering I knew the first one was extremely stiff. I did, as mentioned, feel it added a sports car quality to the handling that the Macan does not possess. And that X3M also had the 21s on it, as I recall so moving to a 20 would only get a bit better. Macans on 21" wheels isnt what I'd call supple by comparison. I think that BMW has finally gotten suspension to the point in the M cars where it is the ideal mix of sport and comfort. Porsche has been here for a while, but at the same time, I think most Macans and Cayennes, and Panameras drive too soft, especially anything that is not a GTS model.

[DFW_M]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

Actually, I nearly bought an X3M and did take a 2022 for a nice test drive and the suspension was not bad at all considering I knew the first one was extremely stiff. I did, as mentioned, feel it added a sports car quality to the handling that the Macan does not possess. And that X3M also had the 21s on it, as I recall so moving to a 20 would only get a bit better. Macans on 21" wheels isnt what I'd call supple by comparison. I think that BMW has finally gotten suspension to the point in the M cars where it is the ideal mix of sport and comfort. Porsche has been here for a while, but at the same time, I think most Macans and Cayennes, and Panameras drive too soft, especially anything that is not a GTS model.

I thought all Macans had the same suspension with the option to get Air and PASM. I don’t believe GTS has any different suspension than the S for example.

[Draper]

Originally Posted by bmwdrive

Why would someone choose the Macan (EV or not) over the M3? Or why would someone choose to own both? It seems to me that the M3 has more room and is also better to drive. I guess ground clearance would be a reason if you have to deal with snow in the winter?

Have you driven a Macan?

The Macan has much more room than a G8x, and is a very well-rounded daily option that is fun to drive (at least in Turbo/GTS trim). I’ve owned both together for a little over a year now, and I find myself driving the Macan 75% or the time. I don’t tend to keep cars very long so not sure what things will look like in 6mos or so if I end up taking delivery of an EV.

Originally Posted by DFW_M

I thought all Macans had the same suspension with the option to get Air and PASM. I don’t believe GTS has any different suspension than the S for example.

Cars with steel springs sit 15mm higher than those with air suspension. You can get AS on all models but it comes standard on the GTS. The GTS also sits 10mm lower than an S/Turbo with AS. However, you can have the dealer (or anyone with PIWIS) adjust the ‘normal’ ride height which is the baseline for the low and off road modes. I currently have my Turbo set ~1” below stock, which is a little lower than the GTS - which IMHO is perfect.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

The X3M has a suspension made out of granite. Ride is BRUTAL. I heard they softened it with the facelift but not sure they can backpedal enough. When that generation of X3 debuted, it got big enough that it could have potentially replaced our Cayenne. So I test drove it. I didn't make it a 1/4 mile out of the lot before I knew it was too stiff for me, and would be an absolute deal killer for my wife, since it would be her daily.

Actually, I nearly bought an X3M and did take a 2022 for a nice test drive and the suspension was not bad at all considering I knew the first one was extremely stiff. I did, as mentioned, feel it added a sports car quality to the handling that the Macan does not possess. And that X3M also had the 21s on it, as I recall so moving to a 20 would only get a bit better. Macans on 21" wheels isnt what I'd call supple by comparison. I think that BMW has finally gotten suspension to the point in the M cars where it is the ideal mix of sport and comfort. Porsche has been here for a while, but at the same time, I think most Macans and Cayennes, and Panameras drive too soft, especially anything that is not a GTS model.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by Draper

Have you driven a Macan?

The Macan has much more room than a G8x, and is a very well-rounded daily option that is fun to drive (at least in Turbo/GTS trim). I’ve owned both together for a little over a year now, and I find myself driving the Macan 75% or the time. I don’t tend to keep cars very long so not sure what things will look like in 6mos or so if I end up taking delivery of an EV.


Cars with steel springs sit 15mm higher than those with air suspension. You can get AS on all models but it comes standard on the GTS. The GTS also sits 10mm lower than an S/Turbo with AS. However, you can have the dealer (or anyone with PIWIS) adjust the ‘normal’ ride height which is the baseline for the low and off road modes. I currently have my Turbo set ~1” below stock, which is a little lower than the GTS - which IMHO is perfect.

Correct on the latter, but on the former, with the exception of the trunk being a little bigger on the Macan, I think the cabin is bigger on the M3. Having the CF buckets also make the back seat room bigger since the seats are slimmer and free up space the reg seats use due to the bulk.

[Draper]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

Correct on the latter, but on the former, with the exception of the trunk being a little bigger on the Macan, I think the cabin is bigger on the M3. Having the CF buckets also make the back seat room bigger since the seats are slimmer and free up space the reg seats use due to the bulk.

The cabins feel fairly close in size to me, but head and shoulder room are greater in the Macan. I have carbon buckets and the legroom is about the same in each. You are probably right that having standard seats in the M would make things a little cozier.

Of course, the cargo area is substantially larger in the Macan especially if you compare both cars with the seats down. I can easily toss a 29in MTB in the back with little fuss. I’ve also have a full set of wheels and unmounted tires in the back.

[bmwdrive]

Originally Posted by Draper

Have you driven a Macan?

The Macan has much more room than a G8x, and is a very well-rounded daily option that is fun to drive (at least in Turbo/GTS trim). I’ve owned both together for a little over a year now, and I find myself driving the Macan 75% or the time. I don’t tend to keep cars very long so not sure what things will look like in 6mos or so if I end up taking delivery of an EV.

I haven't driven a Macan, but I have been in one in the backseat. It was fine, but didn't seem like it had more room than a 3 series. Curious how you think the Turbo/GTS compares to the G8x as a fun to drive car.

[DFW_M]

Originally Posted by bmwdrive

I haven't driven a Macan, but I have been in one in the backseat. It was fine, but didn't seem like it had more room than a 3 series. Curious how you think the Turbo/GTS compares to the G8x as a fun to drive car.

I just got me the GTS after 22 years of BMWs…
You can feel the weight of the Macan vs G80 but that makes you push the gas pedal more and the sound of the 2.9 V6 is amazing, i like it better than the S58 sound in the G80. In Sport and S+ modes, the response of the engine is better than the G80 that i always drove in the Sport mode. The steering is also excellent.
A LOT of fun and after 35 years of (pretty much) exclusive 6MT, i am enjoying the PDK in the Macan.

I liked the Macan over any other SUV for a few reasons:
1) it is small (considerably shorter than the G80)
2) it sits at perfect height (not too high and not too low, the G80 was too low for my lower back and hips)
3) the V6 in a small size SUV

The seats are much more comfortable than very good standard seats in the G80 and very supportive. The seat cooling is much better than that BMW thing. Tech in the G80 is more advanced than the Macan but i am still learning this one.
The room inside is about the same I’d say. Front is roomy and well used. Rear is ok for two adults, though sloping of the roof line probably makes it cramped for those over 6’2”. The trunk space is more usable than the G80 trunk that is excellent size.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by DFW_M

I just got me the GTS after 22 years of BMWs…
You can feel the weight of the Macan vs G80 but that makes you push the gas pedal more and the sound of the 2.9 V6 is amazing, i like it better than the S58 sound in the G80. In Sport and S+ modes, the response of the engine is better than the G80 that i always drove in the Sport mode. The steering is also excellent.
A LOT of fun and after 35 years of (pretty much) exclusive 6MT, i am enjoying the PDK in the Macan.

I liked the Macan over any other SUV for a few reasons:
1) it is small (considerably shorter than the G80)
2) it sits at perfect height (not too high and not too low, the G80 was too low for my lower back and hips)
3) the V6 in a small size SUV

The seats are much more comfortable than very good standard seats in the G80 and very supportive. The seat cooling is much better than that BMW thing. Tech in the G80 is more advanced than the Macan but i am still learning this one.
The room inside is about the same I’d say. Front is roomy and well used. Rear is ok for two adults, though sloping of the roof line probably makes it cramped for those over 6’2”. The trunk space is more usable than the G80 trunk that is excellent size.

Congrats!

The V6 sounds pretty good in the Macans, but I think since the switch to the 2.9 it's a bit too buzzy but don't agree on the throttle and steering when each are at the sportiest - still that that and generally the S58 is a better motor than anything Porsche is making sans the GT car engines.
The Macan is 2.5 inches shorted in length so if anything the G80 would be larger which is why I so feel the cabin is bigger than the Macan whereas the trunk size was a priority for Porsche. The PDK is quite good, but it is an Audi gearbox and not of the same caliber of what they use in the 911/718s.
If you have the 18/8 ways seats (had those in my GTS) they are incredibly comfortable seats. The tech is pretty lackluster and can be very glitchy (know many people who's PCM have just shut down while driving the car) and general cabin has across their lineup as well as the bumpers have taken a turn for the use of lots of black plastics, which I dont like, especially when on the outside they arent painting them.

[Needsdecaf]

I've never gelled with the macan. Had plenty of seat time in them as I've had probably 8-10 as loaners throughout the years. Have had base and S. Driven Turbo but not the newer GTS.

Last month I had a Macan loaner and it was still running the old PCM 5 and it was brand new! Couldn't believe it. PCM 6 is old enough tech as it is, are they still really shipping Macan's with PCM 5?

In any event, the car is too small for my family. We are all tall. My 14 year old is the shortest at 5'6", my wife is 5'10", I'm 6'2" and my son is 6'5". So macan is WAY too small. Back seat legroom is practically nonexistent with my wife and I in the front. Even with her squished forward, my son barely has room behind her, and I have to slide forward to make room for my daughter.

My favorite macan has been a Sport. I think it's been replaced by the T but it was a base 4 cylinder with sport suspension and tuning. I thought it was a fun little pocket rocket; reminded me of a grown up Golf R. But it was like $65k, which is a lot for a 4 cylinder Macan. The PDK...I've never gelled with it. As someone said it's a VW unit and that makes sense; it reminds me of the DSG in my GTi. Pretty recalcitrant around town, especially in the 6 cylinder models. It's also based on the original Q5 architecture, IIRC, and the platform is pretty long in the tooth.

Still, it's sold well, I think because it's a good size and price point for many people. I hear the new GTS is quite the nimble little thing; Porsche does know how to extract magic out of a platform, that's for sure. I recall The Smoking Tire (both Zach and Matt) being impressed as hell by one. And for sure it's the most nimble SUV you can buy with perhaps the exception of the Stelvio, but I have no experience with that.

So am I sad to see it go? Kinda. But I'm honestly more excited with it's replacement. I bet it's gonna drive like a champ.

[Draper]

Pre-production car (non-Turbo) shows 325mi+ range in moderate LA freeway traffic test.

https://youtu.be/ab1AIGLpd_0?si=RL5TyD5XjENCNLT6

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by Draper

Pre-production car (non-Turbo) shows 325mi+ range in moderate LA freeway traffic test.

https://youtu.be/ab1AIGLpd_0?si=RL5TyD5XjENCNLT6

That's not bad, though this is still behind the mark for 2024, but would also say those are ideal conditions. Once you hit 40 degree weather or an even colder winter climate, that range prob drops to 230 or less. Taycan/Etron have some of the worst ranges for EVs in the industry esp considering the upgraded battery is 92 kw.

[DFW_M]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

I've never gelled with the macan. Had plenty of seat time in them as I've had probably 8-10 as loaners throughout the years. Have had base and S. Driven Turbo but not the newer GTS.

Last month I had a Macan loaner and it was still running the old PCM 5 and it was brand new! Couldn't believe it. PCM 6 is old enough tech as it is, are they still really shipping Macan's with PCM 5?

In any event, the car is too small for my family. We are all tall. My 14 year old is the shortest at 5'6", my wife is 5'10", I'm 6'2" and my son is 6'5". So macan is WAY too small. Back seat legroom is practically nonexistent with my wife and I in the front. Even with her squished forward, my son barely has room behind her, and I have to slide forward to make room for my daughter.

My favorite macan has been a Sport. I think it's been replaced by the T but it was a base 4 cylinder with sport suspension and tuning. I thought it was a fun little pocket rocket; reminded me of a grown up Golf R. But it was like $65k, which is a lot for a 4 cylinder Macan. The PDK...I've never gelled with it. As someone said it's a VW unit and that makes sense; it reminds me of the DSG in my GTi. Pretty recalcitrant around town, especially in the 6 cylinder models. It's also based on the original Q5 architecture, IIRC, and the platform is pretty long in the tooth.

Still, it's sold well, I think because it's a good size and price point for many people. I hear the new GTS is quite the nimble little thing; Porsche does know how to extract magic out of a platform, that's for sure. I recall The Smoking Tire (both Zach and Matt) being impressed as hell by one. And for sure it's the most nimble SUV you can buy with perhaps the exception of the Stelvio, but I have no experience with that.

So am I sad to see it go? Kinda. But I'm honestly more excited with it's replacement. I bet it's gonna drive like a champ.

I am not sure I understand people's comments on the leg room (back seat) unless you guys really like the driver's seat pushed waaaaay back. Yesterday, I had my family, wife and 2 (out of 3) daughters in the car. My 20yo 5'10" was in the seat behind me and not even touching my seat (I am 6'0" 180 lbs).
Last week, while in Shanghai, we (5 adults, the 3 of them in the back seat were smaller size) went out to dinner and everyone was very comfortable.

I have driven the Q5/SQ5 many times and the Macan feels completely different to me. The handling, the firmness/tightness is something else. I also like the design of the Macan over the Q5.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by DFW_M

I am not sure I understand people's comments on the leg room (back seat) unless you guys really like the driver's seat pushed waaaaay back. Yesterday, I had my family, wife and 2 (out of 3) daughters in the car. My 20yo 5'10" was in the seat behind me and not even touching my seat (I am 6'0" 180 lbs).
Last week, while in Shanghai, we (5 adults, the 3 of them in the back seat were smaller size) went out to dinner and everyone was very comfortable.

I have driven the Q5/SQ5 many times and the Macan feels completely different to me. The handling, the firmness/tightness is something else. I also like the design of the Macan over the Q5.

Not sure what to tell you. Most of my height is in my torso and still my daughter barely fits behind me.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

That's not bad, though this is still behind the mark for 2024, but would also say those are ideal conditions. Once you hit 40 degree weather or an even colder winter climate, that range prob drops to 230 or less. Taycan/Etron have some of the worst ranges for EVs in the industry esp considering the upgraded battery is 92 kw.

It’s not behind the mark for 2024. That’s real world highway miles, which is always lower than combined EPA rating.

Also, Taycan / Etron smoke their EPA rated range on a highway test. Whereas Tesla never makes it. Goes to show you that the EPA testing is not good, as it doesn’t measure where you really need range: highway road trips. Even if you go by the EPA highway number, the test doesn’t accurately measure range.

The 325 miles above is similar to what you would see in OOS’s 70 MPH range test. See here:

https://outofspecstudios.com/70-mph-range

So pretty much in line with current vehicles with that size battery.