[Multimodal]

They aren't that rare. But the big problem is they are not perceived as very reliable and repairs are expensive. Consumers don't want to own high performance German cars outside of warranty without a big discount.

[Axix23]

Originally Posted by Mr. Maboomba

They aren't that rare. But the big problem is they are not perceived as very reliable and repairs are expensive. Consumers don't want to own high performance German cars outside of warranty without a big discount.

Make sense, I would never buy an used M car. Scared of the repair bills....... LOL

[-Vanguard-]

Originally Posted by Axix23

Whats the reasoning on the M cars not holding their value? I figure with it being more rare, it would be even better??

5K brake jobs, leaks, gaskets going, electrical problems, vanos problems, etc...BMW isnt known for making reliable cars outside of warranty anymore.

M cars are basically luxury commodities for rich people to play with for 2-4 years these days. The sucker is the one who buys a used M5 with 100K on the clock that will need 25K in repairs/maintenance in the near future.

American muscle is usually cheap to fix and Ford's and SRT's high performance engines are pretty damn bulletproof.

[Axix23]

Originally Posted by -Vanguard-

5K brake jobs, leaks, gaskets going, electrical problems, vanos problems, etc...BMW isnt known for making reliable cars outside of warranty anymore.

M cars are basically luxury commodities for rich people to play with for 2-4 years these days. The sucker is the one who buys a used M5 with 100K on the clock that will need 25K in repairs/maintenance in the near future.

American muscle is usually cheap to fix and Ford's and SRT's high performance engines are pretty damn bulletproof.

Well Damn..... lol Don't forgot about b58 oil burning issues..... lol

[speedmaster20d]

Originally Posted by Axix23

Whats the reasoning on the M cars not holding their value? I figure with it being more rare, it would be even better??

they hold their value very well, at least in places where there is money. just go over to the classified forum and look at the prices

[Der_Wolf]

If this is truly the last full ICE M3/M4, I imagine these will hold their value pretty well. I'd be surprised if the next iteration didn't have at least some hybrid components

[Www777]

Originally Posted by Der_Wolf

If this is truly the last full ICE M3/M4, I imagine these will hold their value pretty well. I'd be surprised if the next iteration didn't have at least some hybrid components

And this could be the last one offered with a manual transmission. Although, I recently read that Jeep plans to offer a fully electric version with a manual transmission. I didn’t know that was possible?

[Der_Wolf]

Originally Posted by Www777

And this could be the last one offered with a manual transmission. Although, I recently read that Jeep plans to offer a fully electric version with a manual transmission. I didn’t know that was possible?

They can have them, but not many people do it because you only need two gears (forward and reverse) for an electric, but it can be done. Not sure how that experience translates to a true manual experience on an ICE, though I cannot imagine it would be the same.

Good point on the G8x potentially being the last M3/M4 manual. I don't think these will be miserable for resale (although depending on the LCI and CS updates, maybe the first year model will be undesirable).

[-Vanguard-]

Originally Posted by Der_Wolf

If this is truly the last full ICE M3/M4, I imagine these will hold their value pretty well. I'd be surprised if the next iteration didn't have at least some hybrid components

People said the same thing about the v8 M3 and v10 m5 and those values went down the shitter

[acre22f90]

Originally Posted by -Vanguard-

You're gonna lose a solid 40K on it over 3 years.

American performance cars like the Raptor and Jeep SRT/Trackhawk tend to hold their values REALLY well historically, not just this year. I traded in a 3 year old 81K MSRP (I paid around 72K for it after discounts) 2018 Jeep SRT for 52K. That was trade in, not private.

These big american muscle SUV's/Trucks always did well.

M cars do a little bit better than their non M counterparts, but no BMW is maintaining that kind of resale value. Expect to lose 45% of the value or so.

Do you have data supporting this? Even before the wild market, f80s would prove this wrong, LCI models or not.

[-Vanguard-]

Originally Posted by ACremona22

Do you have data supporting this? Even before the wild market, f80s would prove this wrong, LCI models or not.

What data? Go to cars.com and you can see 2018 M4's going for 43-45K when they were 80k MSRP.

This also means a dealer will probably only give you around 38-40K for it- they usually look to make 5K on the used car.

[Der_Wolf]

Originally Posted by -Vanguard-

People said the same thing about the v8 M3 and v10 m5 and those values went down the shitter

In my opinion, this is a vastly different situation. Complete speculation on my end. I suppose it also depends what the price of gas ends up being too haha

[acre22f90]

Originally Posted by -Vanguard-

What data? Go to cars.com and you can see 2018 M4's going for 43-45K when they were 80k MSRP.

This also means a dealer will probably only give you around 38-40K for it- they usually look to make 5K on the used car.

I went to cargurus (aggregate), and within 500 miles of Chicago there are 2 M3 under 60k out of 37?

The cars you are referencing have 50-60k miles or title issues reported.

Even with a nice "shortage bump", we are far away from your depreciation estimate. Either way, I'm confident that this car will beat it's quoted residual.

[buckybadger]

That's why, try to get rare cars like the M2C or M2 CS.

If you care about value then get a CS, or go to a different brand.

[amzbimmer]

Originally Posted by ACremona22

I went to cargurus (aggregate), and within 500 miles of Chicago there are 2 M3 under 60k out of 37?

The cars you are referencing have 50-60k miles or title issues reported.

Even with a nice "shortage bump", we are far away from your depreciation estimate. Either way, I'm confident that this car will beat it's quoted residual.

As they always say with stocks- "Past performance is not a guarantee of future returns." I highly doubt the market 3 years from now will look anything like now. 45% hit in 3 years is very typical. I would not use the current used car market as a barometer. Just prior the pandemic the prices had been much lower on 3 year old M cars, that would be a much more fair comparison.

This current market is extremely skewed and weird. In 3 years there will be a lot more supply and possibly even oversupply. They are even building new fabrication sites for chips to grow supply.

If I had a crystal ball, I would say expect to see lower prices all around in the near future.

[Der_Wolf]

Originally Posted by ACremona22

I went to cargurus (aggregate), and within 500 miles of Chicago there are 2 M3 under 60k out of 37?

The cars you are referencing have 50-60k miles or title issues reported.

Even with a nice "shortage bump", we are far away from your depreciation estimate. Either way, I'm confident that this car will beat it's quoted residual.

The M3 listed for 67k is my old one (from Patrick)

[Multimodal]

Originally Posted by amzbimmer

As they always say with stocks- "Past performance is not a guarantee of future returns." I highly doubt the market 3 years from now will look anything like now. 45% hit in 3 years is very typical. I would not use the current used car market as a barometer. Just prior the pandemic the prices had been much lower on 3 year old M cars, that would be a much more fair comparison.

This current market is extremely skewed and weird. In 3 years there will be a lot more supply and possibly even oversupply. They are even building new fabrication sites for chips to grow supply.

If I had a crystal ball, I would say expect to see lower prices all around in the near future.

You should keep in mind that today's limited supply of new cars becomes tomorrow's limited supply of late-model used cars. We saw this in the boat market in the 2010s - because boat manufacturers idled or went bankrupt from 2008-2011, the price of used boats in the mid to late 2010s was inflated. I personally expect the price of today's 3-year-old used cars, which are way up, to be most vulnerable to a correction a few years out when those vehicles are 5, 6, 7 years old. Today's new cars, which have not changed much in the last 24 months, will probably be relatively strong. My bet is we see 25%-30% depreciation in 3 years on M3s versus the typical 40%-45%. An $80K MSRP 2021-2022 M3 will probably sell for $60K in 2024.

(P.s. the price of new boats went way up in the mid 2010s which has continued to support high prices in the used market. Used boats are a discount to the price of new today but very little depreciation relative to their original new price. I doubt that will happen in the auto market which is much larger and has to remain affordable relative to incomes.)

[snareman]

Originally Posted by -Vanguard-

What data? Go to cars.com and you can see 2018 M4's going for 43-45K when they were 80k MSRP.

This also means a dealer will probably only give you around 38-40K for it- they usually look to make 5K on the used car.

I sold my $78,000 2018 M4 with 22,000 miles on it for $53,000 in December. Local dealer offered me 45k for it through KBB.

[buckybadger]

It's common these days, there are too many M3s. Plus there will be 2 LCIs, with second one being for mostly chassis re-tuning, and production is not limited like the M2s.

[buckybadger]

Originally Posted by snareman

I sold my $78,000 2018 M4 with 22,000 miles on it for $53,000 in December. Local dealer offered me 45k for it through KBB.

That's ridiculous

[mlover789]

A dealer wanted 67k for m4 2019 used 10k miles.. I sold my M2c 2020 for 47k.. And now I regret selling for so low 😭

[snareman]

Originally Posted by buckybadger

That's ridiculous

The 45k dealer offer you mean?