[Imran@Evolve]

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We were joined by our friend Becky Evans to compare her stock-ish 2016 F80 M3 against our G80 M3.

[filostrato]

Really enjoyed the video Imran. Thanks for highlighting the different characters and the back to back feel of the two cars. People will argue about numbers all day, but the experience behind the wheel is what most people care about when considering an M3/4 purchase

[golf_234]

Very well done, extremely polished video work Imran.

[CanuckM]

Great video Imran, this was much needed for those of us waiting to receive our cars. Its easy having doubts when one sees all the deals on 2020 M2/4s out there but your video reigned me back in.

[Digitalize]

Excellent comparison, seemed pretty fair to me!

[mirob]

Originally Posted by Imran@Evolve

We were joined by our friend Becky Evans to compare her stock-ish 2016 F80 M3 against our G80 M3.

Is something wrong with her DCT? She's the first one to say that the ZF shifts quicker so I find it hard to believe. You've driven her car, what's your impression on DCT vs ZF having driven them back to back?

[Scorp!on]

Originally Posted by mirob

Is something wrong with her DCT? She's the first one to say that the ZF shifts quicker so I find it hard to believe. You've driven her car, what's your impression on DCT vs ZF having driven them back to back?

I think she especially meant the thing with "staying on the downshift and the car chooses the lowest possible gear".

In that point the ZF is faster.

also I don't think someone will notice the shift difference regarding speed somehow, the only thing with DCT is that it is engaging and "pushes" you forward.

[mirob]

Originally Posted by Scorp!on

I think she especially meant the thing with "staying on the downshift and the car chooses the lowest possible gear".

In that point the ZF is faster.

also I don't think someone will notice the shift difference regarding speed somehow, the only thing with DCT is that it is engaging and "pushes" you forward.

Yeah, I was wondering if that's what she meant. I'd love for the ZF to be quicker but it's just not realistic. Like you said, shift speed may not even be that noticeable in the end.

I've owned an E46 M3 (SMGII) and adored the brutal shifts (and thought they were plenty quick) to the point where the DCT felt tame in comparison. Having the ZF in the X5M, I've made that sacrifice already so I don't care as much. But I can see people missing it when making that initial switch. I did.

[filostrato]

The DCT is faster than the ZF but only when going into the preselected gear. I think the point she was making is that when you choose a different one, it takes the system a moment to register then change. This is what the ZF seems to do more quickly

[heavyD^2]

Upshifts in the ZF are virtually as fast and smoother than the DCT. The DCT still has the advantage of faster downshifts when dropping to the next gear seeing it's always preselected.

[W///]

That was a great video, I really liked the format

[LeedsM4]

Originally Posted by Scorp!on

I think she especially meant the thing with "staying on the downshift and the car chooses the lowest possible gear".

In that point the ZF is faster.

also I don't think someone will notice the shift difference regarding speed somehow, the only thing with DCT is that it is engaging and "pushes" you forward.

Originally Posted by Scorp!on

I think she especially meant the thing with "staying on the downshift and the car chooses the lowest possible gear".

In that point the ZF is faster.

also I don't think someone will notice the shift difference regarding speed somehow, the only thing with DCT is that it is engaging and "pushes" you forward.

It's not at all? In manual mode with the DTC, press kickdown with the accelerator pedal and pull the downshift paddle. It'll then drop down and SKIP to the lowest gear possible. At 70mph it'll drop from 7th to 3rd in an instant I've found, anyone that thinks ZF is in anyway 'faster' is delusional or suffering from confirmation bias if you think the ZF gearbox is faster.

Same with kickdown in auto mode, the ZF drops down the gears. Engaging gears as it drops down. DTC however, skips gears.

ZF - Example - *Kickdown Requested* 7-6-5-4th

DTC Example - *Kickdown Request* 7-4th

ZF is no where near as responsive as DTC, sorry

[spuntyb]

Very cool! Some gorgeous cars there to boot. Thanks Imran!

[IND-Distribution]

Nice work once again Imran!

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by LeedsM4

It's not at all? In manual mode with the DTC, press kickdown with the accelerator pedal and pull the downshift paddle. It'll then drop down and SKIP to the lowest gear possible. At 70mph it'll drop from 7th to 3rd in an instant I've found, anyone that thinks ZF is in anyway 'faster' is delusional or suffering from confirmation bias if you think the ZF gearbox is faster.

Same with kickdown in auto mode, the ZF drops down the gears. Engaging gears as it drops down. DTC however, skips gears.

ZF - Example - *Kickdown Requested* 7-6-5-4th

DTC Example - *Kickdown Request* 7-4th

ZF is no where near as responsive as DTC, sorry

ZF can skip gears as well and has a similar kickdown function. ZF is a REALLY good transmission, so I understand the sentiment that many people will not miss the DCT. And tbh, in a casual context I could totally see the ZF being perceived as faster by some.

Having said that, I do agree that the commentary about ZF being faster than DCT as it relates to performance was very odd and contrary to my and literally everyone I personally know's experience with both transmissions, as well as the consensus across forums (even this one).

[swampfox94]

Starting watching the video before reading the comments. I see everyone else had the same response to her dct vs zf comments lol.

[Remonster]

Originally Posted by LeedsM4

It's not at all? In manual mode with the DTC, press kickdown with the accelerator pedal and pull the downshift paddle. It'll then drop down and SKIP to the lowest gear possible. At 70mph it'll drop from 7th to 3rd in an instant I've found, anyone that thinks ZF is in anyway 'faster' is delusional or suffering from confirmation bias if you think the ZF gearbox is faster.

Same with kickdown in auto mode, the ZF drops down the gears. Engaging gears as it drops down. DTC however, skips gears.

ZF - Example - *Kickdown Requested* 7-6-5-4th

DTC Example - *Kickdown Request* 7-4th

ZF is no where near as responsive as DTC, sorry

I've never experienced a ZF in any vehicle shift 7, 6, 5, 4 when you request a kickdown. Only if you're in manual mode and are clicking the downshift paddle down through all those gears but even my family's 2012 528i used to skip directly to the lowest possible gear with no in-between gears if you press the kickdown button.

A DCT can select one gear and pre-select one other gear. If you're in 2nd gear at full throttle, the computer assumes 3rd gear will come next and pre-select 3rd. In that scenario, it upshifts from 2-3 in about 80-100ms in the BMW M-DCT's case.

The ZF 8AT constantly has ALL of its gears pre-selected and can shift from any gear directly to any other in about 150ms.

When you are cruising on the highway in top gear and kickdown in the DCT, it takes longer than the ZF to jump straight down to the gear you want.

When you are driving in manual mode and shifting with paddles, DCT is faster shifting up and down. No question about it.

[4everkidd]

Bs... "I was at half throttle and you were giving it full stacks."

We already know that's not the case.

[Kr0m3assass1n]

Drove an F90 and I can tell you I personally enjoy the DCT more. Yes it's clunky sometimes but nothing like the satisfying jerk when smashing up/ down through my M6's gears. Just personal preference.

Nice video though OP!

[LeedsM4]

Originally Posted by swampfox94

Starting watching the video before reading the comments. I see everyone else had the same response to her dct vs zf comments lol.

She'll be saying SMG is faster than DTC next week

[LeedsM4]

Originally Posted by Remonster

I've never experienced a ZF in any vehicle shift 7, 6, 5, 4 when you request a kickdown. Only if you're in manual mode and are clicking the downshift paddle down through all those gears but even my family's 2012 528i used to skip directly to the lowest possible gear with no in-between gears if you press the kickdown button.

A DCT can select one gear and pre-select one other gear. If you're in 2nd gear at full throttle, the computer assumes 3rd gear will come next and pre-select 3rd. In that scenario, it upshifts from 2-3 in about 80-100ms in the BMW M-DCT's case.

The ZF 8AT constantly has ALL of its gears pre-selected and can shift from any gear directly to any other in about 150ms.

When you are cruising on the highway in top gear and kickdown in the DCT, it takes longer than the ZF to jump straight down to the gear you want.

When you are driving in manual mode and shifting with paddles, DCT is faster shifting up and down. No question about it.

Whichever way you look at it, DTC is a better transmission for what the car is trying to be. People keep saying "I don't mind it's smoother around town than the DTC blah blah"

If you want smoothness, go buy a 335d/340i. Smooth should never be used to describe an M car.

The thing is with ZF is that it inherently restricts the cars performance. Due to oil cavitation you simply car spin the torque converter gearbox as fast as DTC, ZF hates high RPM. Which is why the S58 doesn't Rev as high as the S55. It also hates being banged off the redline and then told to upshift, there's that awful up change delay.

I'm sorry but ZF being in this car is not because 'we had to make it work X Drive' but because they couldn't be bothered and it cost money to keep making it.

Price of the car has gone up, quality of the product has gone down. G80 is essentially a M340i plus, I'm sorry to say

[brava09]

Originally Posted by LeedsM4

It's not at all? In manual mode with the DTC, press kickdown with the accelerator pedal and pull the downshift paddle. It'll then drop down and SKIP to the lowest gear possible. At 70mph it'll drop from 7th to 3rd in an instant I've found, anyone that thinks ZF is in anyway 'faster' is delusional or suffering from confirmation bias if you think the ZF gearbox is faster.

Same with kickdown in auto mode, the ZF drops down the gears. Engaging gears as it drops down. DTC however, skips gears.

ZF - Example - *Kickdown Requested* 7-6-5-4th

DTC Example - *Kickdown Request* 7-4th

ZF is no where near as responsive as DTC, sorry

Lol

ZF skips the gears on downshift just as dct