[Puuhapete]

Originally Posted by 02M3ForMe

Right. They’ve come closer than ever with the 992; there’s still room for improvement.

I was quite impressed by the Bose audio. It’s the best stereo I’ve experienced in a sports car. Far better than the Harman Kardon setup in my G82. I don’t know how the Burmester can realistically improve on it enough to justify the $4k price tag.

Disagree on the Bose. I have it on my Taycan and while its very good, my HK in my earlier F80 was at least as good. I don't like the strong "Treble" emphasis in the Bose. I have it at minus 4 now and now the sound is quite ok. But still not better than the HK in my F80. The bass is clearer and softer in the Bose, I like that.

Burmester is different level than Bose but the price is crazy as almost all options are in the Porsche.

[02M3ForMe]

Originally Posted by Puuhapete

Disagree on the Bose. I have it on my Taycan and while its very good, my HK in my earlier F80 was at least as good. I don't like the strong "Treble" emphasis in the Bose. I have it at minus 4 now and now the sound is quite ok. But still not better than the HK in my F80. The bass is clearer and softer in the Bose, I like that.

Burmester is different level than Bose but the price is crazy as almost all options are in the Porsche.

I'm always disappointed with the bass with stock systems in sports/sporty cars. The 992 with Bose delivered in spades, more than any BMW I've owned (includes multiple F82 and F80CS, which had HK). As far as sports cars go, it's in a league of its own - I've mostly had older Italians (F430, Scuderia, 458, LP640), and those cars may as well had $30 Bluetooth speakers from Amazon taped to the doors. I wouldn't call a Taycan a sports car; I have higher expectations for cars of that size class.

For the music I like (rap/hiphop), I was very impressed, especially given that it's the "save $4k" option. It's the first sports car that I'd seriously consider not springing for the top audio option.

[Puuhapete]

Originally Posted by 02M3ForMe

I'm always disappointed with the bass with stock systems in sports/sporty cars. The 992 with Bose delivered in spades, more than any BMW I've owned (includes multiple F82 and F80CS, which had HK). As far as sports cars go, it's in a league of its own - I've mostly had older Italians (F430, Scuderia, 458, LP640), and those cars may as well had $30 Bluetooth speakers from Amazon taped to the doors. I wouldn't call a Taycan a sports car; I have higher expectations for cars of that size class.

For the music I like (rap/hiphop), I was very impressed, especially given that it's the "save $4k" option. It's the first sports car that I'd seriously consider not springing for the top audio option.

Taycan is definitely not a Sports car but a sporty sedan. Taycan owners who have had HK, many feel the same way as me. Good but nothing spectacular by any means. Don't think the Bose in the 992 is better than in the Taycan. Also the music you listen might make a difference as bass is so important in those genres. I listen mainly to Prog and Synthwave (f.ex Midnight, FM-84) when driving and especially in Prog the strong treble is disturbing. But it is ok and good enough for me. What I value in the Taycan anyway is other things as its incredible ride and for a 2.3 ton car its amazing how it drives on curvy roads. As a sporty daily its unbeatable for me.

[Der_Wolf]

These cars are not in the same price range at all

[babaikram]

blah blah. Simply speaking M4 is awesome and handles well even on tracks

[PKE90]

Originally Posted by Mani59

Last week I had both my M3 6MT and my 718 GT4 MT at the Glen. Both cars are stock albeit I have belts and a half cage in the GT4. I was there to drive the GT4 (first track days since getting it) and have more time tracking p-cars.

Right out of the gate, the Cayman felt easy to drive hard. For example, she is fine taking all four curbs in the bus stop which I didn't do in my track prepped 996 GT3. The balance is neutral as you'd expect and she communicates well for example when you breath off the throttle to get the rear to rotate. The power is great and linear but not scary which I prefer.

The M3 I took out only for a handful of laps and certainly didn't push as hard - I'm just more familiar with Porsches at the limit. Lots of progress since my 2011 E90 especially under braking. She is stable and the torque is intoxicating. I didn't feel as confident getting on the throttle early as I did sense that I'd need quick hands to keep the rear in check as the torque came on. That however was likely more a reflection on my caution with a big heavy car than any bona fide criticism of the car.

So my amateur (PCA instructor) impression was that BMW has really created an upgraded M3/M4. She's fast, comfortable, and more than capable in the right hands on the track. I still prefer the smaller, lighter Porsche (911s have gotten too big for my taste) on the track as they just make you look like a hero. But I am glad that M Division listened to their enthusiast base in creating this new beast!

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by PKE90

Last week I had both my M3 6MT and my 718 GT4 MT at the Glen. Both cars are stock albeit I have belts and a half cage in the GT4. I was there to drive the GT4 (first track days since getting it) and have more time tracking p-cars.

Right out of the gate, the Cayman felt easy to drive hard. For example, she is fine taking all four curbs in the bus stop which I didn't do in my track prepped 996 GT3. The balance is neutral as you'd expect and she communicates well for example when you breath off the throttle to get the rear to rotate. The power is great and linear but not scary which I prefer.

The M3 I took out only for a handful of laps and certainly didn't push as hard - I'm just more familiar with Porsches at the limit. Lots of progress since my 2011 E90 especially under braking. She is stable and the torque is intoxicating. I didn't feel as confident getting on the throttle early as I did sense that I'd need quick hands to keep the rear in check as the torque came on. That however was likely more a reflection on my caution with a big heavy car than any bona fide criticism of the car.

So my amateur (PCA instructor) impression was that BMW has really created an upgraded M3/M4. She's fast, comfortable, and more than capable in the right hands on the track. I still prefer the smaller, lighter Porsche (911s have gotten too big for my taste) on the track as they just make you look like a hero. But I am glad that M Division listened to their enthusiast base in creating this new beast!

Love the perspective from someone who owns both AND tracks.

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by PKE90

Last week I had both my M3 6MT and my 718 GT4 MT at the Glen. Both cars are stock albeit I have belts and a half cage in the GT4. I was there to drive the GT4 (first track days since getting it) and have more time tracking p-cars.

Right out of the gate, the Cayman felt easy to drive hard. For example, she is fine taking all four curbs in the bus stop which I didn't do in my track prepped 996 GT3. The balance is neutral as you'd expect and she communicates well for example when you breath off the throttle to get the rear to rotate. The power is great and linear but not scary which I prefer.

The M3 I took out only for a handful of laps and certainly didn't push as hard - I'm just more familiar with Porsches at the limit. Lots of progress since my 2011 E90 especially under braking. She is stable and the torque is intoxicating. I didn't feel as confident getting on the throttle early as I did sense that I'd need quick hands to keep the rear in check as the torque came on. That however was likely more a reflection on my caution with a big heavy car than any bona fide criticism of the car.

So my amateur (PCA instructor) impression was that BMW has really created an upgraded M3/M4. She's fast, comfortable, and more than capable in the right hands on the track. I still prefer the smaller, lighter Porsche (911s have gotten too big for my taste) on the track as they just make you look like a hero. But I am glad that M Division listened to their enthusiast base in creating this new beast!

PKE90

For anyone who has owned a Porsche and recent ///M car, your written words jump off the page, so to speak.

The Porsche sport cars inspire confidence and deliver on their inspiration. I agree with you that the relative size and refinement of the 911 models has left the 718 in a category of its own . . . one toward which spirited enthusiasts and trackers have gravitated.

Although I am not a tracker, I can extrapolate the difference between the Porsche sport cars and ///M sporty sedans/coupes from the roadways. Many variables could be pointed out but, to your stated point, the G80C simply cannot hide its mass.

In a reverse extrapolation, I have been drawn out of the Porsche lineup into the ///M models BECAUSE my usage entails daily spirited driving . . . which, I suspect, is why you own an ///M car and a GT4 as your preferred ‘track toy.’ No doubt, if I were a tracker, I would own a GT4.

///AVM