[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by 3RDSECTOR

The current C63 doesn't have a hybrid system. The up coming one will and it will definitely have significantly more TQ than the G80.

I think you're getting ahead of yourself. Theoretically a hybrid powertrain can output more but just because it can, doesn't mean that it will. The RS5, M3/M4 and C63 will all have specs within each other to make it competitive.

Apples/Apples, the M177 V8 in the W205 C63 with 2 more cylinders and higher displacement should be able to output more than the S55 but at the end, what did Mercedes output with the M177? 469HP and 470 lb-ft vs. S55's 425HP and 406 lb-ft TQ. Higher, but not significantly higher.

[Jcali86]

Originally Posted by 3RDSECTOR

It will have a sub 7:30 Nürburgring time...but yea it's basically a Prius.

And a Tesla will do it in 7 minutes 23. They're still terrible cars. Prius63s

[buckybadger]

Nobody talks about steering feel and driving dynamics anymore.

It's all about 0-60 for these journalists.

[DecemberStorm]

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

You can say that everyone not named Tesla is behind but it doesn't necessarily spell out doom for those manufacturers because they're all in the same position. Once one legacy manufacturer comes out with one, the rest are going to follow.

All manufacturers are aware of the timelines and mandates in their respected region to switch over to EV's. These billion dollar companies aren't stupid. As long as there is money to be made with ICE and as long as there is the issue of electric/charging infrastructure, the legacy manufacturers are going to slow play this until the very end. Maybe this is BMW's play with the current M3/M4? Maybe they're already deep into a hybrid or full EV powertrain for the next-gen M3/M4.

yea no doubts about that, we will see what they have been up to with the i4 M and next gen M5 soon enough And where you and I live, the infrastructure problem will exist for a while lol.

[M3AWD]

Originally Posted by buckybadger

Nobody talks about steering feel and driving dynamics anymore.

It's all about 0-60 for these journalists.

Did you watch their full review?

[M3AWD]

Originally Posted by EXE46

How about from one of those F80 owners who says G80 is a pig and probably not faster since 400 extra pounds, not as sharp, CH wasn't enthused, M5 wannabe etc etc lol. That would make for some good entertainment....

LoL they already lost it when reviewers said the G8x was closer to being a bigger M2 than a smaller M5.

The G8x delivers in all areas

[3RDSECTOR]

Originally Posted by Jcali86

And a Tesla will do it in 7 minutes 23. They're still terrible cars. Prius63s

Nothing like laughing while your opponent is a minute up the road. You do realize this is a Mercedes right. Not a Tesla. So the horrible car argument is a clown argument.

[3RDSECTOR]

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

I think you're getting ahead of yourself. Theoretically a hybrid powertrain can output more but just because it can, doesn't mean that it will. The RS5, M3/M4 and C63 will all have specs within each other to make it competitive.

Apples/Apples, the M177 V8 in the W205 C63 with 2 more cylinders and higher displacement should be able to output more than the S55 but at the end, what did Mercedes output with the M177? 469HP and 470 lb-ft vs. S55's 425HP and 406 lb-ft TQ. Higher, but not significantly higher.

I don't believe I'm getting ahead of myself at all, and here's why. The M139 motor already generates nearly 400 TQ in it's current form. With more refinements by the time it's placed in the C63 it will be generating over 400 TQ. The hybrid system will mostly definitely be dual motor. Each one generating no less than 100 TQ. With that being said, there is no way the team at AMG will place a dual motor system in the C63 that would have less that 200 TQ combined. This should be an easy concept to grasp considering how TQ rich electric motors are. Even the tiny mild hybrid battery on new BMWs generates 60 TQ. Since AMG is putting a full hybrid system on the C63 it will no doubt demolish everyone in TQ figures until the competition makes the switch to hybrid power as well.

[Jcali86]

Originally Posted by 3RDSECTOR

Nothing like laughing while your opponent is a minute up the road. You do realize this is a Mercedes right. Not a Tesla. So the horrible car argument is a clown argument.

The worst thing about the 'AMG' being ahead would be having to listen to a 4 pot from behind. Otherwise I couldn't care less if a hybrid is faster.

[CklSpeciale]

Originally Posted by 3RDSECTOR

4 Cylinder or not it's going to have 650 HP+. The AMG 4 Cylinder motors generate 400 HP+, with the electric motors generating 200 HP+ you are looking at a rocket ship. Mercedes didn't spend 10 years in F1 perfecting hybrid powertrains for nothing.

hmm I am not an expert but I am pretty sure the HP don't just add up like that. I think the e motor is used mostly to compensate for the fact that the max torque of S139 won't come until 5k rpm and max hp until 6750 rpm.

[3RDSECTOR]

Originally Posted by CklSpeciale

hmm I am not an expert but I am pretty sure the HP don't just add up like that. I think the e motor is used mostly to compensate for the fact that the max torque of S139 won't come until 5k rpm and max hp until 6750 rpm.

The primary purpose of electric motors on the C63 will be to add power. And yes TQ fill will be one of the uses as well. With that said, you have to remember the C63 is basically getting a toned down version of the tech found in the Project One, which is a car mind you that generates 604 HP from its electric motors. It is not a stretch to believe that Mercedes will get 1/3 of that power out of the dual electric motors in the C63. And before any one starts talking financial feasibility let's not forget that Chevy and BMW both have 1000 HP+ cars in the works that will cost under $150,000. This is the new world of power. Electrification is here to rewrite the rule book for power figures.

[3RDSECTOR]

Originally Posted by Jcali86

The worst thing about the 'AMG' being ahead would be having to listen to a 4 pot from behind. Otherwise I couldn't care less if a hybrid is faster.

Hey as long as you don't mind being slow, by all means enjoy your growling V8

[Hulk Smash]

Originally Posted by 3RDSECTOR

Hey as long as you don't mind being slow, by all means enjoy your growling V8

Well to be fair, many people don't mind being slower. People choose a manual transmission for more fun while sacrificing speed. I don't think that's any different than choosing a car with better sound even if it's a little slower.

[jkap27]

Originally Posted by 3RDSECTOR

I don't believe I'm getting ahead of myself at all, and here's why. The M139 motor already generates nearly 400 TQ in it's current form. With more refinements by the time it's placed in the C63 it will be generating over 400 TQ. The hybrid system will mostly definitely be dual motor. Each one generating no less than 100 TQ. With that being said, there is no way the team at AMG will place a dual motor system in the C63 that would have less that 200 TQ combined. This should be an easy concept to grasp considering how TQ rich electric motors are. Even the tiny mild hybrid battery on new BMWs generates 60 TQ. Since AMG is putting a full hybrid system on the C63 it will no doubt demolish everyone in TQ figures until the competition makes the switch to hybrid power as well.

You do realize the amg a45 s which is a smaller car that contains the engine you're describing is already a $72k usd car right? You just described about $100k worth of car easily I would guess. I'm sure Mercedes would not like to take losses on their cars and they're going to shoot for a relatively similar price point to thr current c63 or they will likely lose customers so you're not gonna see unbelievable gains like that I don't think

[jkap27]

Originally Posted by 3RDSECTOR

I don't believe I'm getting ahead of myself at all, and here's why. The M139 motor already generates nearly 400 TQ in it's current form. With more refinements by the time it's placed in the C63 it will be generating over 400 TQ. The hybrid system will mostly definitely be dual motor. Each one generating no less than 100 TQ. With that being said, there is no way the team at AMG will place a dual motor system in the C63 that would have less that 200 TQ combined. This should be an easy concept to grasp considering how TQ rich electric motors are. Even the tiny mild hybrid battery on new BMWs generates 60 TQ. Since AMG is putting a full hybrid system on the C63 it will no doubt demolish everyone in TQ figures until the competition makes the switch to hybrid power as well.

I would agree that car would be a killer but it would also start at six figures easily.
Mercedes' hot hatch with the engine you're describing is already a $72k(USD) car.

[3RDSECTOR]

Originally Posted by jkap27

You do realize the amg a45 s which is a smaller car that contains the engine you're describing is already a $72k usd car right? You just described about $100k worth of car easily I would guess. I'm sure Mercedes would not like to take losses on their cars and they're going to shoot for a relatively similar price point to thr current c63 or they will likely lose customers so you're not gonna see unbelievable gains like that I don't think

You do realize high output electric motors aren't nearly as expensive as you think they are right? Hyundai's Sonata Hybrid makes 50 HP and 150 TQ from it's single electric motor and it cost $27,000. Someone would have to be a real fool to believe Mercedes the manufacturer with the most hybrid powertrain experience outside of Toyota and Renault couldn't deliver a hybrid C63 priced anywhere from $80,000 to $90,000 and not turn a profit.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by M3AWD

Did you watch their full review?

Obviously he didn't. His statement was ridiculous.

[3RDSECTOR]

Originally Posted by jkap27

I would agree that car would be a killer but it would also start at six figures easily.
Mercedes' hot hatch with the engine you're describing is already a $72k(USD) car.

No it won't be a six figure car. Optioned out it might be close to that, but starting it would sit at $80,000. Like I said in another post the Hyundai Sonata Hybrid cost $27,000 and it's single electric motor generates 50 HP AND 150 TQ. Electric motors don't cost as much as people think they do. The economy of scale has brought the cost down significantly in the past five years.

[SeanWRT]

Something definitely not right here. The Mercedes gets out dragged by the Audi in a roll.

Few people are aware of the fact how underwhelmingly the EA839 2.9T with short stroke of Audi performs comparatively speaking, stock and tuned. The RS4/5 gets constantly demolished by the F82 comp doing rolling, which the C63S slightly edges out. To my personal experience in the past couple years. And evidences all over the place.

No issue with the G80C performance though.

[naywa01]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

Whatever. AWD wins of course.

I bet the Audi is a snoozefest outside a straight line.

I seem to remember Mat Watson said as much in his M4 Comp review, basically said the Audi is boring.

I'll concur that every Audi I've ever got behind the wheel of has been full as ditchwater, admittedly I've not driven a recent RS car, but I'm not sure I need to based on my own experiences and what I constantly read and hear about them.

It seems to be if you wanted nice design and interiors they were the ones to go for, but BMW have caught them up at least with regards to the latest generation of interiors in the 3,4,8 etc

[spuntyb]

Not surprising. Our Ms are fucking bananas.

The M xDrive G8x will crush fools

[Puuhapete]

Originally Posted by x328x

I have no doubt the next C63 4cyl Hybrid will be a monster. It will destroy the current G8X in a straight line and around a track.

However the big question is the fun factor, handling and the lack of emotional connection you get from the powertrain. 4 cylinders sound terrible when pushed hard.

Having a hybrid in the family I wonder one thing. How many laps on track will the hybrid AMG be able to do with the electrical power? If its not like a 25 kWh battery at least (which I doubt), the battery will be empty in no time and the AMG is able to use only the 4-cylinder. Recuperation happens but I doubt it will happen fast enough at almost full throttle all the time. There is probably a "track-mode" for this, but it would be nice to know how they solve it.