[DecemberStorm]

Originally Posted by CklSpeciale

I think mercedes knows their customers better. For all the car euthusiasts who complian about the 4 cylinders are actually not the potential customers of a C63. I don't think the current V8 makes it fun to drive, and most people who go with C63 because they want a luxury sedan which can smoke other cars on the freeway and win a traffic light race. I am pretty sure the 4 cylinder will do it.

One reason I've heard is that AMG is a victim of its own success. Due to the underwhelming and slow launch of their EV models , Daimler fleet emissions is well into steep EU fines territory. Easiest band aid right now is to make it's best selling "real AMG" greener ...

But not sure I buy that , BMW is no better with electric cars and here we are with the G8X , no doubt the last combustion engine car in its class.

[THEROK]

I'll easily take the c63s here. AMG is going to whore the sht outta their F1 success to sell the next gen hybrid.

BMW M lost the plot with the G8X. It's a Biermann 2.0 without the Biermann. He would've never co-signed a heavier, ZF auto dulled successor pig snout or no pig snout.

[Jcali86]

Originally Posted by THEROK

I'll easily take the c63s here. AMG is going to whore the sht outta their F1 success to sell the next gen hybrid.

BMW M lost the plot with the G8X. It's a Biermann 2.0 without the Biermann. He would've never co-signed a heavier, ZF auto dulled successor pig snout or no pig snout.

Says he's getting a new C63s but complains about the G8X being heavy with an auto. Enjoy the 4500lb 2.0 auto hybrid Mercedes, bet it will sound great

[fl1by]

The G80C from 3000 - 5500 is simply a weapon.... I fully believe that people that want the standard and a row box instead of the Competition and the additional 100 bl-ft torque will be amazed at the difference. They will be having to catch a couple of extra gears instead of carving out a few extra tenths... The G8C is a Grand Touring Weapon.... simply amazing for stock.

[antzcrashing]

Originally Posted by CklSpeciale

I think mercedes knows their customers better. For all the car euthusiasts who complian about the 4 cylinders are actually not the potential customers of a C63. I don't think the current V8 makes it fun to drive, and most people who go with C63 because they want a luxury sedan which can smoke other cars on the freeway and win a traffic light race. I am pretty sure the 4 cylinder will do it.

Sure lots of people buy cars without knowing the engine underneath, but I believe that drops off fast in the 70k+ starting price range. You can make a great performing car with only 4 cylinders, but for me, and I believe many, the pull from a 6cylinder is just necessary in the heavier cars that exist today

[DecemberStorm]

Originally Posted by THEROK

I'll easily take the c63s here. AMG is going to whore the sht outta their F1 success to sell the next gen hybrid.

BMW M lost the plot with the G8X. It's a Biermann 2.0 without the Biermann. He would've never co-signed a heavier, ZF auto dulled successor pig snout or no pig snout.

LOL being someone with no historical or emotional baggage with any of these cars, it's not hard to see that G8X will easily be the lightest car in its class by a mile. Next C63e or whatever they call it will be 4500lb PHEV , as would the new RS5 with the likely Panamera 4S Hybrid powertrain.

And not sure how much F1 tech they can jam in here and keeping the price point. Most impressive rumor I've heard right now is the e-turbo tech to eliminate lag.

I think your best hope is for BMW to license S58 engine to Toyota to make that Supra GRMN rumor come true. Or spend 1.5x more for a 911

[3RDSECTOR]

Originally Posted by Jcali86

They should rename it. Blasphemy still being named after a 6.3 V8 when it's basically just a Prius now with a lot of bhp.

It will have a sub 7:30 Nürburgring time...but yea it's basically a Prius.

[x328x]

I have no doubt the next C63 4cyl Hybrid will be a monster. It will destroy the current G8X in a straight line and around a track.

However the big question is the fun factor, handling and the lack of emotional connection you get from the powertrain. 4 cylinders sound terrible when pushed hard.

[Lighting.Grey]

To be honest, I don't like these two guys reviews.

[R0ut3r]

Originally Posted by killhour

I genuinely think the AWD will be sub 3.4.

The RS5 absolutely crushes the M4 from a dig, which means that advertised 3.9 time is complete rubbish (and Carwow did an instrumented test where it did 3.9 in the soaking wet). Add to that my anecdotal experience of test driving one yesterday, where the entirety of the experience was "meh" EXCEPT for the launch, which took me by surprise and actually knocked the wind out of me. That RS5 is in the 3.5-3.6 range for sure.

However, the M4 beats it from a roll, no contest. So if the xDrive hooks up the same as the Quattro system (big if), there's absolutely no way this thing doesn't pull close to M5's advertised numbers in the 0-60. Completely insane.

Edit: C&D tested the RS5 at 3.5 to 60. I'm betting the M4 xDrive will do it in 3.3. Seriously.

If a stock X4MC consistently does under 3.6, how could the M4C not do 3.4 or less?

[DL335D]

Originally Posted by bkfastwagon

Do people seriously buy cars based on 0-60 and youtube drag race results?

Not me. I could care less anymore. I owned an F80 ZCP for 4 yrs and yes, it was fast, but I never connected with that car. Anything sub 4.5 is plenty fast enough IMO. My e92 is just about perfect with its v8 screaming from 6,000-8,500. I can wind it out in second and not worry about going to jail.

[jkap27]

Originally Posted by x328x

I have no doubt the next C63 4cyl Hybrid will be a monster. It will destroy the current G8X in a straight line and around a track.

However the big question is the fun factor, handling and the lack of emotional connection you get from the powertrain. 4 cylinders sound terrible when pushed hard.

Agreed losing that v8 roar is absolutely a negative for them...this zf8 gearbox that some people are seeing as a negative will actually be a positive for the many g8x owners that may not ever track their cars. Not to mention what not reusing the m5 awd/zf8 platform wouldve done to the msrp

[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by DecemberStorm

One reason I've heard is that AMG is a victim of its own success. Due to the underwhelming and slow launch of their EV models , Daimler fleet emissions is well into steep EU fines territory. Easiest band aid right now is to make it's best selling "real AMG" greener ...

But not sure I buy that , BMW is no better with electric cars and here we are with the G8X , no doubt the last combustion engine car in its class.

Overanalyzing. BMW and Mercedes just have their own roadmaps on how they want to roll out EV's and has little to do with how people view each brands EV efforts.

If anything, the argument can be made that BMW look like they're behind. Mercedes taking whatever R&D from F1 signals that they have a legitimate hybrid powertrain to power not just a Mercedes, but a AMG. It's one step leaving ICE and moving toward EVs.

All BMW has is Formula E which they have already announced they are leaving so while Mercedes has already made the first step, we don't know what BMW is going to do with the future of BMW M. Optics show that Mercedes could already be one step/one generation ahead with the upcoming C63.

This is already shaping up to be the most controversial generation of this class. Can't wait to see what happens.

[Bumpinjeep]

Sort of suspicious how fast that RS5 was. I can't imagine that it would come close to the M4 let alone the C63S when it comes to the rolling race.
For example here Skip to 2:44
Maybe that RS5 was tuned?

[3RDSECTOR]

Originally Posted by antzcrashing

Sure lots of people buy cars without knowing the engine underneath, but I believe that drops off fast in the 70k+ starting price range. You can make a great performing car with only 4 cylinders, but for me, and I believe many, the pull from a 6cylinder is just necessary in the heavier cars that exist today

You don't need the pull of 6 cylinders when you have 700+ TQ available.

[DecemberStorm]

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

Overanalyzing. BMW and Mercedes just have their own roadmaps on how they want to roll out EV's and has little to do with how people view each brands EV efforts.

If anything, the argument can be made that BMW look like they're behind. Mercedes taking whatever R&D from F1 signals that they have a legitimate hybrid powertrain to power not just a Mercedes, but a AMG. It's one step leaving ICE and moving toward EVs.

All BMW has is Formula E which they have already announced they are leaving so while Mercedes has already made the first step, we don't know what BMW is going to do with the future of BMW M. Optics show that Mercedes could already be one step/one generation ahead with the upcoming C63.

This is already shaping up to be the most controversial generation of this class. Can't wait to see what happens.

i like your take there ... AMG has electrified products ready to go between this new C63 and the GT73; both are due for imminent launch. VAG brands have a more comprehensive lineup from top to bottom, but other than that no one else is close to MB.

but its not how ppl view the efforts, the reality is outside VW group all incumbant automakers are behind in EV rollouts. Ppl can decide which one is worse: the wrong execution in i3/i8 or the half baked EQC/EQA. If anything I think BMW has one of the most compelling PHEV products out there with the x5 plug in lol

[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by DecemberStorm

i like your take there ... AMG has electrified products ready to go between this new C63 and the GT73; both are due for imminent launch. VAG brands have a more comprehensive lineup from top to bottom, but other than that no one else is close to MB.

but its not how ppl view the efforts, the reality is outside VW group all incumbant automakers are behind in EV rollouts. Ppl can decide which one is worse: the wrong execution in i3/i8 or the half baked EQC/EQA. If anything I think BMW has one of the most compelling PHEV products out there with the x5 plug in lol

You can say that everyone not named Tesla is behind but it doesn't necessarily spell out doom for those manufacturers because they're all in the same position. Once one legacy manufacturer comes out with one, the rest are going to follow.

All manufacturers are aware of the timelines and mandates in their respected region to switch over to EV's. These billion dollar companies aren't stupid. As long as there is money to be made with ICE and as long as there is the issue of electric/charging infrastructure, the legacy manufacturers are going to slow play this until the very end. Maybe this is BMW's play with the current M3/M4? Maybe they're already deep into a hybrid or full EV powertrain for the next-gen M3/M4.

[antzcrashing]

Originally Posted by 3RDSECTOR

You don't need the pull of 6 cylinders when you have 700+ TQ available.

The core M3 has more torque than the AMG Mercedes even with its electric motor. So my money is on the M. And AMG to never use a 4 cylinder in a future AMG C63 again. But we shall see

[pookiemalibu]

Originally Posted by bkfastwagon

Do people seriously buy cars based on 0-60 and youtube drag race results?

At this stage in life + COVID, yeah, like 96.5% of my buying decision was made based on reviews/experiences from this forum and youtube videos. I never even test drove a $100K car.

[Remonster]

Originally Posted by antzcrashing

Why did Chris Harris say in his M4 review that the Mercedes is 4 cylinder, why is everyone saying that? Its a V8 right?

The current W205 C63 AMG has a V8, the next W206 C63 AMG (or whatever they decide to call it) has been confirmed by the head of AMG to have a 4 cylinder hybrid powertrain.

Originally Posted by CklSpeciale

I think mercedes knows their customers better. For all the car euthusiasts who complian about the 4 cylinders are actually not the potential customers of a C63. I don't think the current V8 makes it fun to drive, and most people who go with C63 because they want a luxury sedan which can smoke other cars on the freeway and win a traffic light race. I am pretty sure the 4 cylinder will do it.

My shop works on a ton of AMGs, I've asked about 40 AMG owners if they'd consider replacing their cars with a 4 cylinder hybrid and 0 of them have said yes so far. We'll see how the real car turns out but it seems to me that the V8 engine has always been the absolute #1 draw of any AMG vehicle when I talk to the people who actually buy them and suffer through the enormous cost to maintain and repair them.

I believe BMW M is positioned the best out of the German 3 to transition into alternative powertrains, their unique selling point centers around great handling which has been consistently good whether the cars have had inline 4s, inline 6s, V8s, V10s, twin turbo inline 6s, etc. so it seems likely that even a hybrid or full EV future M car can still appeal to a lot of the current fanbase. AMG owners pretty much all buy the car solely because it sounds like a V8. Even when they call me to modify their cars, they never ask how to improve handling or do anything besides add more power or make the V8 louder. This is not a criticism of AMG owners, I fucking love AMGs, but I really will be shocked if the W206 C63 AMG sells even 1/3 as many units as the G8x M3/M4 in this upcoming generation.

[3RDSECTOR]

Originally Posted by antzcrashing

The core M3 has more torque than the AMG Mercedes even with its electric motor. So my money is on the M. And AMG to never use a 4 cylinder in a future AMG C63 again. But we shall see

The current C63 doesn't have a hybrid system. The up coming one will and it will definitely have significantly more TQ than the G80.

[bkfastwagon]

Originally Posted by JPM-3

Sometimes we do.

Though I find it overwhelmingly difficult to believe that a stock RS5 beats a c63s from a roll, if both are in peak powerband.

There are so many factors involved (e.g., driver, gear ratio) that it's basically meaningless. It's purely for entertainment purposes, but people take it way too seriously. Only thing that is true is RS5 and C63S drive very differently and that's not captured in these races.