[unseen orko]

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I've seen the videos from Chris Harris and some of the usual like Throttle House and Straight Pipes. They all seem to indicate the G80 M3 is an M car. I also notice that people like Chris Harris that enjoy an M car seem to prefer and like it more than a typical sports car. I don't know if that's because of its practicality or some of the special "M" factor.

I'm just trying to understand from you experts and fellow passionate members, what is it that makes an M car an M car?

[Serious]

Easy. It's the fastest, most powerful version of each chassis.

[CanuckM]

An M car is a mixture of things. Yes, powerful but also the most advanced chassis that BMW can give to that given model. Strong brakes, a very fast steering, high horsepower but most of all a noteworthy driving experience. When you drive a 340i and jump into an M3, you know right away that it is something entirely different. You can lean on M cars in ways that the regular cars just don't care for. Last but not least, it has to be visually aggressive; big fenders, wide tires and a menacing look overall.

[BzsBimmer]

I also have a 335 and when I hop into the M3, it’s a world of difference in feel and power.

Like the other poster stated, it’s meant to be the best of that model line.

[Saphirschwarz]

the price

[CanAutM3]

The best way I can find to describe an ///M car is motorsport DNA is an everyday chassis.

Particularly for the M3/4, they are cars that serve the dual duty of practical daily drivers and track toys.

[Scorp!on]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

The best way I can find to describe an ///M car is motorsport DNA is an everyday chassis.

Particularly for the M3/4, they are cars that serve the dual duty of practical daily drivers and track toys.

zis sums it up perfectly.

[CAS_M3]

Having owned three previous generations of M3's, initially diving into European vehicles from JDM cars was the fact that it's a jack of all trades. M3s in particular, more so with the introduction of the 4-door, have made it easy to have a very well made high end sports sedan that you can take your kids to school, hit a circuit track, and pickup your dry cleaning and groceries on the way home. They always have been an impressive automobile.

[zamboni]

First is starting with regular 3 series then hop into M car, it's completely different driving experience. Something you just can't explain on paper.

[E90M3velocity]

Before M would put bespoke engines, but they went with turbo motors for this and the last gen that are loosely based their regular motors. Some of the older folks or BMW "elitists" who understand cars only in a bubble will tell you that M has lost their ways. Can't deny that these conservations exist when asking "what makes a M car"

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by E90M3velocity

Before M would put bespoke engines, but they went with turbo motors for this and the last gen that are loosely based their regular motors. Some of the older folks or BMW "elitists" who understand cars only in a bubble will tell you that M has lost their ways. Can't deny that these conservations exist when asking "what makes a M car"

The only "bespoke" engines were the S85 and S65, and even the latter was a derivative of the former. All other ///M engines, either before or after those two, were derivatives of base series motors.

For sure, I was a bit disappointed with the S55 after they indulged us with that "bespoke" S65, but a "bespoke" engine does not define an ///M car .

[SeanWRT]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

For sure, I was a bit disappointed with the S55 after they indulged us with that "bespoke" S65

Disappointed how? Sound? Coming from some of the best sounding BMWs, I cannot quite see that true, especially from a long term ownership perspective.

The disappointment if it ever exists, is not the engine, but rather the chassis that's incapable of handling the power from that engine.

Been commuting my E90 M3 for 5 years till 2016, I switched to N55 M2, followed by a couple years with the S55 and B58.

Engine wise, for me quite the opposite holds true. All these independent M engines before the S55 have more characters than performance. By comparison, the S55 outshines with its sheer power, consisitency and reliability, while not lacking in personalities - strong and immediate torque full range, also liking to climb to the last bit of RPM.

When talking with enthusiat friends on the M of today and past, I do have many complaints and disapointment, but the engine isn't one of them. The flaws sure they (S63, S55) do have some, but the sheer dominance in power do more than making all up for that. Hey, just look at the way the discontinued S55 still destroys competitors this day with ease, stock. And the fact that the S85 and S65 can't hardly match the series engine that comes after them...

I do not think the character alone qualifies for the M engine, at least much less so than the performance.

After all these years breaking and making up with the F82, I figured to myself the fact the S55 is my favorate BMW engine of all time. That was quite a surprise now that I made that clear.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by SeanWRT

Disappointed how? Sound? Coming from some of the best sounding BMWs, I cannot quite see that true, especially from a long term ownership perspective.

The disappointment if it ever exists, is not the engine, but rather the chassis that's incapable of handling the power from that engine.

Been commuting my E90 M3 for 5 years till 2016, I switched to N55 M2, followed by a couple years with the S55 and B58.

Engine wise, for me quite the opposite holds true. All these independent M engines before the S55 have more characters than performance. By comparison, the S55 outshines with its sheer power, consisitency and reliability, while not lacking in personalities - strong and immediate torque full range, also liking to climb to the last bit of RPM.

When talking with enthusiat friends on the M of today and past, I do have many complaints and disapointment, but the engine isn't one of them. The flaws sure they (S63, S55) do have some, but the sheer dominance in power do more than making all up for that. Hey, just look at the way the discontinued S55 still destroys competitors this day with ease, stock. And the fact that the S85 and S65 can't hardly match the series engine that comes after them...

I do not think the character alone qualifies for the M engine, at least much less so than the performance.

After all these years breaking and making up with the F82, I figured to myself the fact the S55 is my favorate BMW engine of all time. That was quite a surprise now that I made that clear.

The S55 is the better overall engine from a technical and performance standpoint. It is better than the the S65 in al almost evey aspect. But you said it yourself, the S65 outshines it in character, it had more "soul" and felt more special to me in everyday driving. The S65 was more like a practical piece of art while the S55 is a utility.

But that was not the point of my post...

[zamboni]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

The S55 is the better overall engine from a technical and performance standpoint. It is better than the the S65 in al almost evey aspect. But you said it yourself, the S65 outshines it in character, it had more "soul" and felt more special to me in everyday driving. The S65 was more like a practical piece of art while the S55 is a utility.

But that was not the point of my post...

That's not a fair comparison of the two engines, S65 is new where the S55 is a few years older.

[Nkr15]

Originally Posted by zamboni

That's not a fair comparison of the two engines, S65 is new where the S55 is a few years older.

The f80 is older than the e90? :

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by zamboni

That's not a fair comparison of the two engines, S65 is new where the S55 is a few years older.

????

[zamboni]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

????

Apology for the typo I meant S58 engine compare to S55.

[KevinGS]

Love my S65, probably going to never trade it in.

The S55 didn't sound good to me at all in daily driving, even with a full aftermarket exhaust. Stock, it sounds almost like a truck to me at low RPMs. But when you're in full attack mode approaching redline, it sounded pretty good. Unfortunately, the daily driving far outweighed track time and back road blasts.

The S58 sounds better than the S55, mostly because it's just quieter in daily driving. I like that. But then when you get into it, like the S55, it sounds pretty good (even with the sounds being piped in to assist).

So for me, I'd rather have more quiet in daily mode, and then some tension as you approach the redline in attack mode. And I don't need it to be real loud as the RPMs soar, because if the engine doesn't sound "awesome", I don't want 'more loud' for the sake of noise. Just give me a little more sensation, and a little more sound and a lot more performance.

My S65 sounds good at ALL RPMs, it just drips with character. And if you supercharge the S65, it puts out a lot of power, and still sounds amazing. So for the S65, I want all the sound I can get, because it sounds so damn good, and has different tones in different parts of the powerband (can have a deep octave at low RPMs, a mid octave during the middle powerband, and then be screaming above 7500 RPM).

Truly, if I could put a well-tuned, supercharged S65 in the G82 chassis, I'd do it in a heartbeat, and I'd never stop smiling.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by zamboni

Apology for the typo I meant S58 engine compare to S55.

Then I am not sure to how it relates to my post where we were discussing S65 vs S55...

However, regarding the S58, albeit being a newer engine as you say, it brings little new to the table over the S55. It is the very basic tuning approach of getting more power through higher boost from bigger turbos and a lower compression ratio. Nothing fancy.

[AlterZgo]

Other than the original M1, M cars have always been about a great compromise between performance and practicality. The M1 was not based on any other pedestrian BMW car and sits on an island by itself so I really see the 1980 M535i as the "first" M car in terms of what M cars really are about, i.e. based on a regular production BMWs but having either bespoke or fully upgraded engines, suspension components, chassis tuning, etc.

It's the ultimate single car for enthusiasts where you can have your cake and eat it too.

[dialogical]

Originally Posted by AlterZgo

Other than the original M1, M cars have always been about a great compromise between performance and practicality. The M1 was not based on any other pedestrian BMW car and sits on an island by itself so I really see the 1980 M535i as the "first" M car in terms of what M cars really are about, i.e. based on a regular production BMWs but having either bespoke or fully upgraded engines, suspension components, chassis tuning, etc.

It's the ultimate single car for enthusiasts where you can have your cake and eat it too.

Exactly. They're meant to be the best all-rounder. The enthusiasts best choice for a one car garage.

[bri1042]

Originally Posted by dialogical

The enthusiasts best choice for a one car garage.

One sentence that covers my seemingly eternal automotive quest. :-)