[Remonster]

Originally Posted by Montaver

They threw enthusiasts a bone in the US with the manual, but it will be the same manual from the F8X cars. There is zero chance they spent any development cash on improving it.

To be honest the best thing they could do in re-using the F80 manual transmission is just leave it alone. I really enjoyed it in my 2018 M3. It feels great to me, holds a ton of power without complaint, can be shifted easily and smoothly whether driving slowly or quickly. If I get into a G80 M3 and find the transmission and clutch are 100% identical to F80, I'll be happy.

I know BMW claims that transmission & clutch aren't rated for over 406ft-lbs but all I know is I was pushing nearly 550ft-lbs through plenty of launches, burnouts, several autocross class wins, and they held up without complaint.

I agree with a lot of the rest of your post.

[stefan]

Originally Posted by Remonster

To be honest the best thing they could do in re-using the F80 manual transmission is just leave it alone. I really enjoyed it in my 2018 M3. It feels great to me, holds a ton of power without complaint, can be shifted easily and smoothly whether driving slowly or quickly. If I get into a G80 M3 and find the transmission and clutch are 100% identical to F80, I'll be happy.

I know BMW claims that transmission & clutch aren't rated for over 406ft-lbs but all I know is I was pushing nearly 550ft-lbs through plenty of launches, burnouts, several autocross class wins, and they held up without complaint.

I agree with a lot of the rest of your post.

I have NEVER understood the complaints with the transmission. Even on youtube, there is always a standard journalist complaint about notchyness. 1->2 notch is a distinct BMW tradition that requires a little finesse. I love it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with it. I wouldn't change the ratios either. Now that they ship with ZHP, there's nothing to do.

[KoenG]

The new M G8x is indeed a bit of a disappointment.

1/ they didn't have the cash to invest in lightweight like they did on the F8x and low weight is priority number 1.
2/ by consequence the extra power is only very mildly translated to extra performance,
3/ also, the fuel consumption and CO² emissions are +10% up (because of this, registration tax sky rockets in many countries)
4/ the torque limit on the MT will provide the G with a less favorable weight/torque ratio making it actually feel slower.
5/ this is subjective: this is looking like the equivalent of the Honda Type R in the hot hatch segment. Drag queen makeup from every angle you look at it.

[solstice]

1. Every generation have added at least 200 lbs except F8X
2. Every generation has added 50-100 hp except F8X.

The G8X is the norm not the F8X. The M division got handed an engine (N55) for the F8X with not enough headroom and had to focus on weight not to end up with a disappointment. With the G8X things are back to normal, stop acting like it’s this abnormal biggest disappointment in history.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by solstice

1. Every generation have added at least 200 lbs except F8X
2. Every generation has added 50-100 hp except F8X.

The G8X is the norm not the F8X. The M division got handed an engine (N55) for the F8X with not enough headroom and had to focus on weight not to end up with a disappointment. With the G8X things are back to normal, stop acting like it’s this abnormal biggest disappointment in history.

Don't let yourself get fooled by the official power rating numbers like I originally did. You cannot compare turbo and NA power ratings. The F8X provided a significant leap in real world power vs the E9X. The acceleration numbers are there to prove it. Further, with ~300lb of weight gain, the G8X wins for the biggest leap in weight of any generation.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Don't let yourself get fooled by the official power rating numbers like I originally did. You cannot compare turbo and NA power ratings. The F8X provided a significant leap in real world power vs the E9X. The acceleration numbers are there to prove it. Further, with ~300lb of weight gain, the G8X wins for the biggest leap in weight of any generation.

Umm...the E36 added 500 lbs.

[GhostyM]

Originally Posted by solstice

Umm...the E36 added 500 lbs.

Most E30 M3's weighed like 2950lbs with full fuel/driver.

E36 M3's weighed like 3200lbs with full fuel/driver.

Not exactly 500lbs.

Let's use some owner weighed numbers to give reference to the weight gains (I did forum searches for each of these weights with 160lb driver and full gas)

E30 M3: 2950lbs
E36 M3: 3200lbs
E46 M3: 3450lbs
E92 M3: 3740lbs
F82 M3: 3750lbs
G82 M3: 4,102lbs (BMW Published numbers with Comp & RWD **Not AWD even...** + 160lb driver)
G82 M3 AWD: 4,302lbs (This is a guess, but no way AWD doesn't at least add 200lbs)

I feel like the weight gains (pre G8X) made sense given these are ///M models dating back almost 30 years. But to gain 450-500lbs with ONLY a RWD model (not AWD weight even, lord have mercy on us all lmao)

[solstice]

Originally Posted by GhostyM

Most E30 M3's weighed like 2950lbs with full fuel/driver.

E36 M3's weighed like 3200lbs with full fuel/driver.

Not exactly 500lbs.

And your numbers are not exactly right. I owned two E30s and two E36s.

[solstice]

Numbers are tricky to compare though as we know, they depend on your market, your options, your model year etc.

More important is how the car carry the weight, how it can be felt. The E30 to E36 was very noticeable, more so than any other generational change.

For the G8X we don’t know how an equally equipped F8X feel or what the scales will show. Maybe it’s not even noticeable and maybe it is. At minimum way too early to judge as harshly as being done in this thread IMO.

And as one of the mods commented, the G8X does have at least one unique factory options to lower the weight in the CF bucket seats.

[LSM]

Originally Posted by Jacky Treehorn

Porsche 911 (992) weighs 3300-3800lbs. NSX weighs 3800lbs. C8 vette 3700lbs. It's a new game out there

Buyers want all the luxuries, bells, whistles, and comfort...all while turning out highly competitive Nurburgring times. They don't want a car that lacks comfort, noise insulation, highly sophisticated electronics, dampening, ect. GT cars.

They want a car that can do it all. Mature and full size all while being capable as hell. They stuff massively powerful engines in there.

Go get groceries, bomb the highway, take a road trip, hit the track without fatiguing you too much.

M2 (or the supra) takes the place of the previous gen M3 cars that has a bit more sports car nimble feel

3800 lbs 992? You mean the Targa 4S which is the heaviest at 3700 lbs is awd we are talking about a complicated targa model. . 992 S Coupes weigh3200-3300lbs. 992 4S is 3487 and awd - Turbo S is 3600lbs and awd

M3/M4 is a pig 3890 and awd will be 4100 lbs

So the m4 awd will weigh 500 lbs more than a 992 Turbo S and 613 lbs more than the 992 4s

Point is the weight gain for this gen is outrageous

[GhostyM]

Originally Posted by solstice

Numbers are tricky to compare though as we know, they depend on your market, your options, your model year etc.

More important is how the car carry the weight, how it can be felt. The E30 to E36 was very noticeable, more so than any other generational change.

For the G8X we don’t know how an equally equipped F8X feel or what the scales will show. Maybe it’s not even noticeable and maybe it is. At minimum way too early to judge as harshly as being done in this thread IMO.

And as one of the mods commented, the G8X does have at least one unique factory options to lower the weight in the CF bucket seats.

You're absolutely right on the feel, but those numbers I mentioned were taken directly for different forums ranging from this forum to bimmerforums, r3v, etc.

Of course, some will spec their cars differently but it was all real customer numbers.

This new M3/M4 will tip the scales at 4300lbs given what they have shown us with a driver, full gas, competition package and AWD (which they haven't shown us the weight for yet).

I don't know about you, but an M8 Comp weighs 4250lbs (my current car) and I'll tell you something, it FEELS like it weighs 4250lbs.

Especially when I go back to driving my Huracan EVO. It's night and day.

[Avaley]

Weight is relative, power to weight and the suspension changes to improve cornering are imperative.

I want this car to be 3600 lbs like everyone else, but the power to weight is better than any other car in BMWs lineup to date (other than maybe a tuned M2CS) and guarantee the 80wtq or so improvement over the prior gen will more than offset the weight gain.

Feel free to prove me wrong here but the single digit percent gain in weight i would guess is offset by the double digit percent gain in torque...

https://g80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1760674

[solstice]

Originally Posted by GhostyM

You're absolutely right on the feel, but those numbers I mentioned were taken directly for different forums ranging from this forum to bimmerforums, r3v, etc.

Of course, some will spec their cars differently but it was all real customer numbers.

This new M3/M4 will tip the scales at 4300lbs given what they have shown us with a driver, full gas, competition package and AWD (which they haven't shown us the weight for yet).

I don't know about you, but an M8 Comp weighs 4250lbs (my current car) and I'll tell you something, it FEELS like it weighs 4250lbs.

Especially when I go back to driving my Huracan EVO. It's night and day.

So now we are 4300 lbs for the G8X, 4250 lbs for the M8 and 3750 lbs for the G82. I dunno I still feel there is some cherry picking to exaggerate the situation here. I understand some are unhappy and have concerns. Personally after having owned each generation I’m not concerned about this one. For the E36 I was and for the F8X but not the G8X.

[Avaley]

I also looked at the C63S coupe with a V8 twin turbo, which i would say is the closest real comparable vehicle in terms of price and performance.

Didn't do the math but i think its heavier and with similar to slightly higher output but no shit its a v8.

What I want to know is how this stacks up to the prior cars and competitors based on maximum potential power with tune, fbo, racegas, ethanol, etc. to weight ratio.

Best gauge will be the Nordschleife tbh...

[henrylee]

Increased weight to match that pig nose

[LSM]

Originally Posted by Avaley

Weight is relative, power to weight and the suspension changes to improve cornering are imperative.

I want this car to be 3600 lbs like everyone else, but the power to weight is better than any other car in BMWs lineup to date (other than maybe a tuned M2CS) and guarantee the 80wtq or so improvement over the prior gen will more than offset the weight gain.

Feel free to prove me wrong here but the single digit percent gain in weight i would guess is offset by the double digit percent gain in torque...

https://g80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1760674

The answer is simple. No amount of gadgetry and power makes up for excessive weight.

I owned a M4 comp and F90 M5. The M5 I hated driving. Not fun, heavy, bad steering and you feel the weight.

Is it fast absolutely! On paper everything looks great. Does it feel sporty not at all. Fun to drive not really much preferred M4 comp

M3/M4 Are massive and overweight now. Trust me the fun factor and Tossability will be affected. Where the old one felt like a go cart this new one may perform better (be faster) but won't match lighter cars driving dynamics

[Avaley]

Originally Posted by LSM

The answer is simple. No amount of gadgetry and power makes up for excessive weight.

I owned a M4 comp and F90 M5. The M5 I hated driving. Not fun, heavy, bad steering and you feel the weight.

Is it fast absolutely! On paper everything looks great. Does it feel sporty not at all. Fun to drive not really much preferred M4 comp

M3/M4 Are massive and overweight now. Trust me the fun factor and Tossability will be affected. Where the old one felt like a go cart this new one may perform better (be faster) but won't match lighter cars driving dynamics

I agree 100% lol but am reserving judgement until driving reviews / i get my hands on it.

unfortunately, when buyers want to spend 85k on a car they want all their creature comforts and features...i think todays market the auto and AWD sells the best sadly

purists need to hold out and pray the G87 doesnt gain as much weight as her older sisters while retaining their power

edit again: tbf the auto industry is getting fat AF

[LSM]

Originally Posted by Avaley

I agree 100% lol but am reserving judgement until driving reviews / i get my hands on it.

unfortunately, when buyers want to spend 85k on a car they want all their creature comforts and features...i think todays market the auto and AWD sells the best sadly

They do and agree. I guess I just wish they figured out a way to keep the car around 3600lbs. They are making a slightly lighter M5.

[Avaley]

Honestly she doesn't look so bad going around corners.

[MyFragileHalogen]

I wouldn't mind the front design if it was due to engineering consideration such as aero and cooling. Definitely the main reason I wouldn't jump onto G8x is the weight, which is like adding two dead bodies and then giving 50hp more. Not sure about the 8AT transmission only for competition model that starts at whooping $75k. Wouldn't the carbon bucket seats be another $10k option due to the carbon brakes in the same package?

[solstice]

Originally Posted by MyFragileHalogen

I wouldn't mind the front design if it was due to engineering consideration such as aero and cooling. Definitely the main reason I wouldn't jump onto G8x is the weight, which is like adding two dead bodies and then giving 50hp more. Not sure about the 8AT transmission only for competition model that starts at whooping $75k. Wouldn't the carbon bucket seats be another $10k option due to the carbon brakes in the same package?

Check the carbon seats thread for a nice surprise. They are priced at $4k Canadian or $3k USD as a standalone option

[bm323]

Originally Posted by LSM

The answer is simple. No amount of gadgetry and power makes up for excessive weight.

I owned a M4 comp and F90 M5. The M5 I hated driving. Not fun, heavy, bad steering and you feel the weight.

Is it fast absolutely! On paper everything looks great. Does it feel sporty not at all. Fun to drive not really much preferred M4 comp

M3/M4 Are massive and overweight now. Trust me the fun factor and Tossability will be affected. Where the old one felt like a go cart this new one may perform better (be faster) but won't match lighter cars driving dynamics

Precisely, "fast" is not everything. It's not even the main thing.