[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Jacky Treehorn

Porsche 911 (992) weighs nearly 3700lbs. NSX weighs 3800lbs. C8 vette 3700lbs. It's a new game out there

Buyers want all the luxuries, bells, whistles, and comfort...all while turning out highly competitive Nurburgring times. They don't want a car that lacks comfort, noise insulation, highly sophisticated electronics, dampening, ect. GT cars.

They want a car that can do it all. Mature and full size all while being capable as hell. They stuff massively powerful engines in there.

Go get groceries, bomb the highway, take a road trip, hit the track without fatiguing you too much.

M2 (or the supra) takes the place of the previous gen M3 cars that has a bit more sports car nimble feel

Yes, also a good point. The days of low weight cars are behind us

[pbar]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Yes, also a good point. The days of low weight cars are behind us

And let's not even mention Teslas and Taycans where the batteries add another 20%!

I'm sure the reason modern cars are porkers is that they built the chassis to handle lugging around massive batteries in a couple of years' time. (and to be shared with the 'monster-truck' SUV versions).

[Avaley]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Yes, also a good point. The days of low weight cars are behind us

Originally Posted by Jacky Treehorn

Porsche 911 (992) weighs nearly 3700lbs. NSX weighs 3800lbs. C8 vette 3700lbs. It's a new game out there

Buyers want all the luxuries, bells, whistles, and comfort...all while turning out highly competitive Nurburgring times. They don't want a car that lacks comfort, noise insulation, highly sophisticated electronics, dampening, ect. GT cars.

They want a car that can do it all. Mature and full size all while being capable as hell. They stuff massively powerful engines in there.

Go get groceries, bomb the highway, take a road trip, hit the track without fatiguing you too much.

M2 (or the supra) takes the place of the previous gen M3 cars that has a bit more sports car nimble feel

3200lb 718 GT4 is probably the lightest most recent model of luxury sports cars (other than like Alpine A110).

Its a sad day indeed that a 3400lb Supra and probably 3500lb G87 M2 will be the lightest affordable luxury sports cars in their class...

[jmg]

Originally Posted by Avaley

3200lb 718 GT4 is probably the lightest most recent model of luxury sports cars (other than like Alpine A110).

Its a sad day indeed that a 3400lb Supra and probably 3500lb G87 M2 will be the lightest affordable luxury sports cars in their class...

It's depressing. Maybe they will make another BMW M Coupe based on the Z4... with a manual.

[Avaley]

Originally Posted by jmg

It's depressing. Maybe they will make another BMW M Coupe based on the Z4... with a manual.

Haven't they confirmed that eventually the M2 was going to be on the Supra platform? I know the 2 series non M car is on a different platform but a M2 on the Supra platform with the S58 is my dream car...

https://www.bmwblog.com/2020/03/09/2...-transmission/

[Hegge]

Originally Posted by Avaley

3200lb 718 GT4 is probably the lightest most recent model of luxury sports cars (other than like Alpine A110).

Its a sad day indeed that a 3400lb Supra and probably 3500lb G87 M2 will be the lightest affordable luxury sports cars in their class...

Don't think the G87 M2 is only going to be 3,500 pounds. Add another 200 - 300 to the 3,500.

[F85MTuNED]

Yeah I can't lie I'm kinda disappointed with the weight specs but overall it's way more car so gotta give and take I guess.

[Montaver]

Part of the issue is the G20 3 series is a massive car to begin with, it's basically the size of an E39 5 series.

Where BMW have gotten it wrong is building a 'mini' M5 with AWD and 8AT to play the numbers game and please the stoplight racers. They should be pushing what made BMW great in the first place, not bringing them closer to Audi and everyone else. Throw in the crippled manual and accompanying engine tune, with engineers who actively looked to dial out steering feel for good measure. If your going to be stuck with a 7.2K RPM redline at least make it a V8, at this point it feels so far away from the original ethos of an M car. There's an interview out there with the current head of design from a year or so ago, and his disdain for traditional BMW is pretty clear. A nice set of carbon bucket seats doesn't disguise that the direction set at the top of BMW has been heading in the wrong direction for a long time. Just ask Albert Biermann..

[OG///M]

Originally Posted by Montaver

Part of the issue is the G20 3 series is a massive car to begin with, it's basically the size of an E39 5 series.

Where BMW have gotten it wrong is building a 'mini' M5 with AWD and 8AT to play the numbers game and please the stoplight racers. They should be pushing what made BMW great in the first place, not bringing them closer to Audi and everyone else. Throw in the crippled manual and accompanying engine tune, with engineers who actively looked to dial out steering feel for good measure. If your going to be stuck with a 7.2K RPM redline at least make it a V8, at this point it feels so far away from the original ethos of an M car. There's an interview out there with the current head of design from a year or so ago, and his disdain for traditional BMW is pretty clear. A nice set of carbon bucket seats doesn't disguise that the direction set at the top of BMW has been heading in the wrong direction for a long time. Just ask Albert Biermann..

Well said. The direction was changed a few years ago and since about MY2019, we've been seeing the results of that change, and now it's progressed into this. Unless things change again from the top, I don't know if there's any chance of redemption.

Trying to compensate weight with power can only go so far, at the end of the day you can't beat physics, about 3500lbs is where it starts to tip the balance.

Look up an interview with Gordon Murray about the new T.50 and he goes into detail why weight is so important for handling dynamics.

[///M3Fresh]

Not only was the exterior design done by my 5 year olds classmates, they let my coworkers plan out the size too?

All jokes aside, did they plan the ugly front end to sneak in the weight and not think we'd notice?

[jmg]

Originally Posted by Montaver

Part of the issue is the G20 3 series is a massive car to begin with, it's basically the size of an E39 5 series.

Where BMW have gotten it wrong is building a 'mini' M5 with AWD and 8AT to play the numbers game and please the stoplight racers. They should be pushing what made BMW great in the first place, not bringing them closer to Audi and everyone else. Throw in the crippled manual and accompanying engine tune, with engineers who actively looked to dial out steering feel for good measure. If your going to be stuck with a 7.2K RPM redline at least make it a V8, at this point it feels so far away from the original ethos of an M car. There's an interview out there with the current head of design from a year or so ago, and his disdain for traditional BMW is pretty clear. A nice set of carbon bucket seats doesn't disguise that the direction set at the top of BMW has been heading in the wrong direction for a long time. Just ask Albert Biermann..

It makes sense though, appeal to the LCD for sales. I just wish BMW had more guts than that.

[TrevorM3]

yep, bmw's lost it.

[gtr]

Originally Posted by Jacky Treehorn

Porsche 911 (992) weighs nearly 3700lbs.

2020 Carrera S RWD Curb weight is 3395 lb which is the version more comparable to the G80. Are you using the targa top AWD version? We should compare apples to apples. 4 seater, RWD coupe or sedan.

[bm323]

Gearbox F80 G80 Difference
M3 Sedan Manual 1595 kg 1780 kg 185 kg
M3 Sedan Auto 1635 kg
M3 Competition Manual 1610 kg
M3 Competition Auto 1635 kg 1805 kg 170 kg
M4 Coupe Manual 1572 kg
M4 Coupe Auto 1572 kg 1775 kg 203 kg
M4 Competition Manual 1612 kg
M4 Competition Auto 1590 kg
1615 kg 1800 kg 185 kg

https://www.bmwblog.com/2020/09/23/b...82-vs-g80-g82/

[Avaley]

Originally Posted by bm323

Gearbox F80 G80 Difference
M3 Sedan Manual 1595 kg 1780 kg 185 kg
M3 Sedan Auto 1635 kg
M3 Competition Manual 1610 kg
M3 Competition Auto 1635 kg 1805 kg 170 kg
M4 Coupe Manual 1572 kg
M4 Coupe Auto 1572 kg 1775 kg 203 kg
M4 Competition Manual 1612 kg
M4 Competition Auto 1590 kg
1615 kg 1800 kg 185 kg

https://www.bmwblog.com/2020/09/23/b...82-vs-g80-g82/

Would you so kindly please recreate this chart but with hp/torque : weight stats? Many thanks in advance!

3968 curb weight for M4C auto in 'Murican btw

[bm323]

Originally Posted by Avaley

Would you so kindly please recreate this chart but with hp/torque : weight stats? Many thanks in advance!

3968 curb weight for M4C auto in 'Murican btw

Sorry, I don't have the info; I merely copied info from the bmwblog link above.

[bracer]

That's disappointing. No surprising I guess, but disappointing all the same. I'm sure it's a fine car, but ugly and heavy. For those that actually put their cars on the track this one will be a non starter. Just too heavy. Consumables will be ultra high. It's also funny to me the track pack has ceramic brakes. No one who actually tracks uses ceramic brakes. Maybe they should have named that the "track look" package.

[John.K]

Not sure how far along the next RS 5 is in the development stage (I'm sure the chassis and main structural components are all locked in now). But they have this giant opportunity now to beat G8x on weight....

If I was the chief engineer there, having seen these weight figures, i would do anything and everything now to claim the throne from BMW - by spending all my resources and R&D on weight reduction.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by GhostyM

EDIT: I just realized that they announced the F8x M3 at 3350+ lbs and real world weight was 3560. If that same math applies.. this could be a 4,300lb car....

The original weight of the F8X was grossly understated. It was for a bare bones zero option car which did not exist anywhere in the world. EU regulations have since changed to avoid this, so I don't believe the G8X in the real world will be much heavier than advertised.

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by John.K

Not sure how far along the next RS 5 is in the development stage (I'm sure the chassis and main structural components are all locked in now). But they have this giant opportunity now to beat G8x on weight....

If I was the chief engineer there, having seen these weight figures, i would do anything and everything now to claim the throne from BMW - by spending all my resources and R&D on weight reduction.

Ha ha ha. Come on man. The current S5 is 3925 lbs. Heck even an S3 is 3600 lbs. You think that the next RS5 is going to be sub-4000 lbs?

[deeldoo]

Car looks fat as shit, complete ass. Although i love the interior and the quad pipes.

The M4 looks like an M8.

These are fast sports cars, they aren't M cars

[John.K]

heavyD^2 I'm just saying they now have the opportunity to go for it.... (if it makes business sense to the board..etc..)

I dont believe next RS5 will be sub-4000 lbs either.

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

Ha ha ha. Come on man. The current S5 is 3925 lbs. Heck even an S3 is 3600 lbs. You think that the next RS5 is going to be sub-4000 lbs?