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      06-03-2019, 09:35 AM   #397
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Originally Posted by Iceman1 View Post
It seems that the downmarket 6MT Pure model from the original post is being cancelled and launch models of the M3 will be AT only.

However, BMW could revisit the 6MT for an undeniably upmarket CS down the road. I say this based on the last paragraph in the evo article from this post:

https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1592758
The way I see it, BMW is trying to force everyone who wants MT/RWD/driving pleasure to only buy M2 variants because it takes more resource to offer across M range.

In this age where character and customization are valued more than ever, this is a less than ideal decision in the hindsight of cost cutting in production and R&D.
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      06-03-2019, 07:21 PM   #398
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Originally Posted by Iceman1 View Post
It seems that the downmarket 6MT Pure model from the original post is being cancelled and launch models of the M3 will be AT only.

However, BMW could revisit the 6MT for an undeniably upmarket CS down the road. I say this based on the last paragraph in the evo article from this post:

https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1592758
Or, they made a mix of pure and base.....

It could be that 6MT is offered in both RWD and AWD?
The bigger HP competition is possibly like the M5 now?
No thanks on that.....

I think/hope to go back on the promise of 6MT would be an awfully tough PR hit to M, but something or nothing got streamlined, we are left guessing, IMO.

One thing I have learned over the years, BMW does read these boards, so it does not hurt to let your voice be heard.
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      06-04-2019, 07:03 AM   #399
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Or, they made a mix of pure and base.....

It could be that 6MT is offered in both RWD and AWD?
The bigger HP competition is possibly like the M5 now?
No thanks on that.....

I think/hope to go back on the promise of 6MT would be an awfully tough PR hit to M, but something or nothing got streamlined, we are left guessing, IMO.

One thing I have learned over the years, BMW does read these boards, so it does not hurt to let your voice be heard.
I agree about the PR hit. If they ditch the MT, that's the nail in the coffin for BMW's enthusiast supporters. They will almost surely look elsewhere if forced to buy auto.
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      06-04-2019, 07:32 AM   #400
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I agree about the PR hit. If they ditch the MT, that's the nail in the coffin for BMW's enthusiast supporters. They will almost surely look elsewhere if forced to buy auto.
But what alternatives are there? (Not trying to be snarky. Genuinely interested)
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      06-04-2019, 08:12 AM   #401
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Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
I agree about the PR hit. If they ditch the MT, that's the nail in the coffin for BMW's enthusiast supporters. They will almost surely look elsewhere if forced to buy auto.
But what alternatives are there? (Not trying to be snarky. Genuinely interested)
Well at this point people will consider the Audi's, Benz's, etc. The MT was a differentiating factor; it was/is the last option for those of us who want tactile involvement with our vehicles. Without that option, people might as well look at some of those handsome Audi's on the road, for example. I know people will exclaim, "....but BMW's drive better!"......but how much better?!?! To many, BMW lost its competitive edge years ago as the experience had become less analog and more digitized, so I am not sure I'll buy that argument (...although I consider the F8X to be a phenomenal car that I have loved since its inception, and having owned at least 17 BMW's - many of which were ///M's - it is my favorite BMW thus far; I'm on my second ///M4). The MT has kept me in the BMW camp. It they ditch it, my only options are to A) keep my current ///M4, B) look at the ///M2 CS, or C) move to Porsche.
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      06-04-2019, 10:37 PM   #402
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Quote:
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But what alternatives are there? (Not trying to be snarky. Genuinely interested)
For some of us, the 6MT M3 is a best of all worlds type of car... convenience of a 4-door, a great 6MT, good luxury, crap load of power and handling... all in an awesome looking package (especially in the F80).... so when you eliminate one of those factors, the calculation changes... now the "best of all worlds" is no longer an option for some of us... we have to look to 2 cars to get the same package... and when you look to have 2 cars to replace your M3, a lot of options/combinations open up...
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      06-04-2019, 11:32 PM   #403
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceman1 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fhey View Post
But what alternatives are there? (Not trying to be snarky. Genuinely interested)
For some of us, the 6MT M3 is a best of all worlds type of car... convenience of a 4-door, a great 6MT, good luxury, crap load of power and handling... all in an awesome looking package (especially in the F80).... so when you eliminate one of those factors, the calculation changes... now the "best of all worlds" is no longer an option for some of us... we have to look to 2 cars to get the same package... and when you look to have 2 cars to replace your M3, a lot of options/combinations open up...
Yup. Porsche and any shit box will do
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      06-05-2019, 11:48 AM   #404
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceman1 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fhey View Post
But what alternatives are there? (Not trying to be snarky. Genuinely interested)
For some of us, the 6MT M3 is a best of all worlds type of car... convenience of a 4-door, a great 6MT, good luxury, crap load of power and handling... all in an awesome looking package (especially in the F80).... so when you eliminate one of those factors, the calculation changes... now the "best of all worlds" is no longer an option for some of us... we have to look to 2 cars to get the same package... and when you look to have 2 cars to replace your M3, a lot of options/combinations open up...
I was holding out for a G80 MT after selling my E90 M3 and skipping over the F80. Now I may be out of luck. What else is out there? Not much, and what is available with a MT involves compromise. I ended up buying a Miata RF. Decided if I couldn't get a 4 door MT I should broaden my search. The way it drives delights me the way the old BMWs used to - at half the price. I hope I can have one more M3 with a stick, but until then I'm very happy.
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      06-05-2019, 10:03 PM   #405
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Originally Posted by midlifecrisis View Post
I was holding out for a G80 MT after selling my E90 M3 and skipping over the F80. Now I may be out of luck. What else is out there? Not much, and what is available with a MT involves compromise. I ended up buying a Miata RF. Decided if I couldn't get a 4 door MT I should broaden my search. The way it drives delights me the way the old BMWs used to - at half the price. I hope I can have one more M3 with a stick, but until then I'm very happy.
Nice! Congrats on the ND. That's my backup plan if there's no MT on the g80.
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      06-06-2019, 08:53 PM   #406
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Originally Posted by midlifecrisis View Post
I was holding out for a G80 MT after selling my E90 M3 and skipping over the F80. Now I may be out of luck. What else is out there? Not much, and what is available with a MT involves compromise. I ended up buying a Miata RF. Decided if I couldn't get a 4 door MT I should broaden my search. The way it drives delights me the way the old BMWs used to - at half the price. I hope I can have one more M3 with a stick, but until then I'm very happy.
Good for you!

I will stretch the budget (various Porsche products) or drive something with economical appeal (Veloster N), but in today’s world of busy streets and detached cars, the manual has never been more appealing. Rarely do I get above 4th gear unless on a freeway, most driving is 1st-3rd which is always fun with a manual.

For those looking for a new car, 6MT and 4doors, Don’t forget the Golf R. There will be a new 2020 Golf R next year, so if you need the latest model be advised. Also on the horizon, the new STI will be here to compete against the Golf R. I still hold hope that Ford will come back with the Focus ST and RS.

Used, there are many choices and check dealer inventory, You never know what can be had, (F80, A4, Focus RS/ST) also if you buy a model still under warranty they can be extended much cheaper than BMW’s extended warranty.

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      06-06-2019, 09:08 PM   #407
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceman1 View Post
For some of us, the 6MT M3 is a best of all worlds type of car... convenience of a 4-door, a great 6MT, good luxury, crap load of power and handling... all in an awesome looking package (especially in the F80).... so when you eliminate one of those factors, the calculation changes... now the "best of all worlds" is no longer an option for some of us... we have to look to 2 cars to get the same package... and when you look to have 2 cars to replace your M3, a lot of options/combinations open up...
I already did this.
It is a great option.
Only downside, so far, garage space gets tight.
Plus side - Allows for a wider net when searching for manual transmission sports car, so totally worth it.
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      06-06-2019, 10:36 PM   #408
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I already did this.
It is a great option.
Only downside, so far, garage space gets tight.
Plus side - Allows for a wider net when searching for manual transmission sports car, so totally worth it.
Agreed.. In-fact, I got to my F80 6MT as a way to move away from my 330Ci + S2000 partnership over the last 10+ years.. wanted to maintain one less car and save some space, while getting a combined better car... if you choose to split your rides, many options... Even bringing in Raptors, GMCs, X3/5/7, Merc's, Audie's, Caddy's, Porsche's, Shelby's, Camaro's, Challenger's, Corvette's... there's a lot of options based on what you like...

Last edited by Iceman1; 06-06-2019 at 10:45 PM..
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      06-11-2019, 11:57 AM   #409
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Originally Posted by Iceman1 View Post
Agreed.. In-fact, I got to my F80 6MT as a way to move away from my 330Ci + S2000 partnership over the last 10+ years.. wanted to maintain one less car and save some space, while getting a combined better car... if you choose to split your rides, many options... Even bringing in Raptors, GMCs, X3/5/7, Merc's, Audie's, Caddy's, Porsche's, Shelby's, Camaro's, Challenger's, Corvette's... there's a lot of options based on what you like...
I just did this split. M4 > Ram 2500 and Civic Type R. A more pure driving experience and more utility. I am very interested in the new M3 after driving the new M5. Feels like BMW is getting the M brand back on track with much better driving dynamics. The difference between my F10 M5 and the new one is night and day.

My hope is that BMW go down the route of Porsche RS models with the CS line. More high strung, less luxury, more purity of the experience. The M3 has become a high volume model with all of the compromises that come with that.
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      06-11-2019, 01:00 PM   #410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceman1 View Post
Agreed.. In-fact, I got to my F80 6MT as a way to move away from my 330Ci + S2000 partnership over the last 10+ years.. wanted to maintain one less car and save some space, while getting a combined better car... if you choose to split your rides, many options... Even bringing in Raptors, GMCs, X3/5/7, Merc's, Audie's, Caddy's, Porsche's, Shelby's, Camaro's, Challenger's, Corvette's... there's a lot of options based on what you like...
I just did this split. M4 > Ram 2500 and Civic Type R. A more pure driving experience and more utility. I am very interested in the new M3 after driving the new M5. Feels like BMW is getting the M brand back on track with much better driving dynamics. The difference between my F10 M5 and the new one is night and day.

My hope is that BMW go down the route of Porsche RS models with the CS line. More high strung, less luxury, more purity of the experience. The M3 has become a high volume model with all of the compromises that come with that.
Keep wishing!
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      06-11-2019, 02:33 PM   #411
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Salespunk View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceman1 View Post
Agreed.. In-fact, I got to my F80 6MT as a way to move away from my 330Ci + S2000 partnership over the last 10+ years.. wanted to maintain one less car and save some space, while getting a combined better car... if you choose to split your rides, many options... Even bringing in Raptors, GMCs, X3/5/7, Merc's, Audie's, Caddy's, Porsche's, Shelby's, Camaro's, Challenger's, Corvette's... there's a lot of options based on what you like...
I just did this split. M4 > Ram 2500 and Civic Type R. A more pure driving experience and more utility. I am very interested in the new M3 after driving the new M5. Feels like BMW is getting the M brand back on track with much better driving dynamics. The difference between my F10 M5 and the new one is night and day.

My hope is that BMW go down the route of Porsche RS models with the CS line. More high strung, less luxury, more purity of the experience. The M3 has become a high volume model with all of the compromises that come with that.
Keep wishing!
If Bmw doesn't offer a manual I'll finally bite the bullet and get two cars. I need 4 doors 50% of the time so I'll probably pick up an accord/civic and my dream car; cayman s in a 6 spd.
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      06-17-2019, 06:39 AM   #412
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yep

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Bmw M3 -1985-2019. R.I.P
i believe time of death in the official coroner's report was mid-2013
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      06-17-2019, 09:19 AM   #413
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i believe time of death in the official coroner's report was mid-2013
Wow...despite sales being up 500% for the F80 vs. the E9x (doesnt even count M4s), you think the M3 died with your model.
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      06-17-2019, 09:44 AM   #414
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An M3 CS wouldn't be released until a few years after the G80 base and competition models. A detuned engine to handle a 6MT isn't going to happen as it would confuse the market. The CS is slated to be a hard core model, not watered down S58 for a 6MT. Might as well put the S55 in the G80 spun crank hub and all for a 6MT. Bimmerpost will see less action once the 6MT or bust pack up their bags and high tail outa here to P land. BMW M is a niche product line and with the pressure to cut corporate costs to pay for EV R&D, there will be unhappy customers— BMW AG is prepared for this. Time to embrace and accept that 6MT is yesterday's news.
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      06-17-2019, 11:44 AM   #415
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BMW M is a niche product line and with the pressure to cut corporate costs to pay for EV R&D, there will be unhappy customers— BMW AG is prepared for this. Time to embrace and accept that 6MT is yesterday's news.
I don't believe this is entirely true. The EV R&D is being offset by the CLAR architecture and other production consolidations. As true with any company, strategy, customer loyalty, and branding are of upmost importance when it comes to an increasingly competitive market.
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      06-17-2019, 10:03 PM   #416
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I don't believe this is entirely true. The EV R&D is being offset by the CLAR architecture and other production consolidations. As true with any company, strategy, customer loyalty, and branding are of upmost importance when it comes to an increasingly competitive market.
Total M vehicle production was around 100,000 units in 2018 where as BMW AG manufactured 2.49 million units world wide. M division represents 4% of total sales, as the 6MT take rate has been 50% for the US market M2, but below 30% for the F80/82/83. The M5, 6MGC, X5M and X6M were all 8AT production in 2018. I agree 110% regarding a successful business needs strategy and customer retention, but M vehicle 6MT is probably less than 1% of all BMW AG world wide sales. From a ROI analysis, there is no financial justification to continue 6MT R&D with your OEM part suppliers. This is a text book case from Harvard Business Review, as the 6MT R&D cost is too high even when the higher M vehicle profit margin is factored in-- figure 50% of the current 6MT customers will purchase a 8AT and the remaining vocal 6MT will leave for other brands as the cost of enthusiast 6MT customer retention is too high for BMW AG.
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      06-18-2019, 12:12 AM   #417
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Total M vehicle production was around 100,000 units in 2018 where as BMW AG manufactured 2.49 million units world wide. M division represents 4% of total sales, as the 6MT take rate has been 50% for the US market M2, but below 30% for the F80/82/83. The M5, 6MGC, X5M and X6M were all 8AT production in 2018. I agree 110% regarding a successful business needs strategy and customer retention, but M vehicle 6MT is probably less than 1% of all BMW AG world wide sales. From a ROI analysis, there is no financial justification to continue 6MT R&D with your OEM part suppliers. This is a text book case from Harvard Business Review, as the 6MT R&D cost is too high even when the higher M vehicle profit margin is factored in-- figure 50% of the current 6MT customers will purchase a 8AT and the remaining vocal 6MT will leave for other brands as the cost of enthusiast 6MT customer retention is too high for BMW AG.

I agree with everything you said, but I feel a slightly longer term issue with this might be people considering the move to other brands, then never coming back and BMW losing their reputation as a manufacturer that is different to all of the others - eventually leaving them as another Acura or Infiniti.
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      06-18-2019, 04:15 AM   #418
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I agree with everything you said, but I feel a slightly longer term issue with this might be people considering the move to other brands, then never coming back and BMW losing their reputation as a manufacturer that is different to all of the others - eventually leaving them as another Acura or Infiniti.
M division should be ashamed of themselves for replacing M DCT with ZFat. They know full well the transmission responds nowhere as fast as DCT under demanding conditions.
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