[Professor///M]

Insert 1 moderately negative comment about this, while making a private savings account to buy the product. Hate the product and design when it is released, then buy it anyway.
Pubically display disdain for your purchase while secretely loving the vehicle.
After the world accepts the new model, exclaim you loved it from the beginning.
Signed,
98.2% of Bimmepost Users

[guy_incognito1420]

Originally Posted by m2for2

Damn that's terrible, what is the % for the personal property tax on cars.

Tell me about it and it varies by county, where I live it's $4.57/$100 of assessed value or 4.57% before tax relief.

You get tax relief on the first $20,000 of assessed value but you're on the hook for the remaining balance.

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

To Toyota's credit, they have resisted EV's from the jump. They started the hybrid thing and are embracing it full stop. And they have publicly stated their dislike for EV's. Their EV is a total compliance car too.

So kudos for them to sticking to their guns.

Now look at them

Scrambling to catch up

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by guy_incognito1420

Tell me about it and it varies by county, where I live it's $4.57/$100 of assessed value or 4.57% before tax relief.

You get tax relief on the first $20,000 of assessed value but you're on the hook for the remaining balance.

Not sure where you reside

But I’d move stat ❕

[12nine]

Originally Posted by ///M TOWN

It’s that what adaptive means

Adaptive means, a platform which fits ICE and BEV. But there was a statement that the Neue Klasse is BEV-only. So there has to be a second platform and not one adaptive one.

[MarkOK]

Originally Posted by KevinGS

Battery technology will improve and will become lighter. They're already working on that, and even other storage ideas for power.

Yes, all these early EVs are heavy as hell, but imagine once you can create all this electric power and the batteries way half as much as they do now? Or 1/4 as much as weight? It's coming. EVs and battery technology are in their infancy as a mass market idea. Way more R&D is being spent to figure this out, so expect rapid advancements over the next decade...so by the 3rd and 4th gen EVs, the numbers will be astonishing - 0 to 60 in 1.5 seconds, with a 500-mile range, and rapid charging from Empty to Full in 30 minutes!...with a lateral g of 1.3. Oh, and it seats 5 people comfortably

Then people buying those cars will laugh at our old ICE vehicles, which will have less performance and will be less efficient (and will have antiquated interior technology)...just like we wonder why those old guys in their '67 Cadillacs still like their antiquated tanks that get 11 mpg with an originally-sourced AM radio in the dash.

There is a hard limit to how much energy can be stored in these batteries. 25 or 30% less weight is perhaps possible, but beyond that, you have to go nuclear to get more energy on less weight. I am not a mechanical or electrical engineer, but have had some healthy talks with some because I am involved in research where we are trying to push unmanned vehicles (drones) to their limits. There, weight is very important to operational performance, but there is a real limit of physics to be dealt with on what can be achieved in terms of energy density.

No doubt, with EVs, you can get speed and performance, you can get range, and you can be 'light', but you can't get all three. Heck, it's hard enough to get 2 of the three.

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by 12nine

Adaptive means, a platform which fits ICE and BEV. But there was a statement that the Neue Klasse is BEV-only. So there has to be a second platform and not one adaptive one.

I’m thinking it might allow both BEV & ICE

Perhaps CLAR will still remain

They’re not stupid

[12nine]

Originally Posted by ///M TOWN

I’m thinking it might allow both BEV & ICE

The BMW Group will be realigning its product range from the middle of the decade with the introduction of the Neue Klasse, based on a vehicle architecture (BEV-only) that is uncompromisingly geared towards electric drive trains.

Source: https://www.bmwgroup.com/en/news/gen...eueklasse.html

[Uvo]

Diesel is for heating
Gas is for cooking
Electricity is for lightbulbs
Gasoline is for driving

[XxThe_RemedyXx]

When all ICE cars eventually go electric, what will we be talking about on these forums?

[Casone238]

Well if the next M3 will be electric I’m holding on to my G80 until the wheels fall off. That also means I’ll be ordering a X5M before the EOP for the LCI. Unless the M8 remains as ICE vehicle. I wouldn’t mind the mild hybrid 48v system, I had it in my M340 and I had no issues with it.

[KevinGS]

Originally Posted by Uvo

Diesel is for heating
Gas is for cooking
Electricity is for lightbulbs
Gasoline is for driving

You sound ancient.

[MarkOK]

Originally Posted by jmg

100% of the resources burned in an ICE are fossil fuels, so even if 35% of electricity is coal generated, it's still favorable. When and if electricity goes down to 10% coal generated, the ICE will still be at 100% fossil fuel dependent.

The portability of gas isn't completely advantageous over electricity. Once the initial cost of constructing electric infrastructure are hurtled, the cost of sending electricity via lines is faster and cheaper than trucking and shipping fuel. Also the environmental impact of oil pipelines are arguably higher risk than power lines. Solar, wind, hydro, and nuclear power can also make energy supply less geographically dependent as areas that depend on oil imports have an alternative local resource for energy.

The simplifications in this statement make me cringe. It's ignoring efficiencies and most externalities of various systems, and that we are playing with the margins here.

All things equal, right now, when you use electricity for your car, that 'extra power' is usually (in the US) being put into the grid with natural gas powered energy. Natural gas plants handle the delta between what the base plants + Renewables are already providing, and what the demand that day is. There are a few spots in the US where in certain days there is excess wind capacity (and the natural gas power plants are mostly off). In western OK, during a windy spring day, operators in Chicago (or somewhere) will remotely stop some of the wind turbines because there is too much energy in the system and no where for those electrons to go. In those sorts of rare cases, your EV power might actually come from wind. But, by and large, that extra power demand will be met with a natural gas power plant ramping up.

By the time you account for the efficiencies of that power production (for natural gas, it can be quite good -- as high as 38% perhaps!), and then the losses in distribution, and then between your battery and power applied, you pretty much just using 100% fossil fuels at about the same (or slightly worse) efficiency as an ICE (depending on the ICE. Most of my miles are on a Hybrid Prius that gets 50 mpg and only eats gas. It's really hard to beat that in terms of efficient use of fossil fuels per mile unless you do some very hadwavy analysis ignoring how grids operate)

I am a big proponent for reforms in the electrical grid, but figuring a way to ramp up renewables to deal with EVs is a wicked problem. There aren't any great solutions. I am annoyed at how laser focused politicians have been on electrification of cars when there are so many easier ways to deal with our environmental and sustainability issues.

[Uvo]

Originally Posted by XxThe_RemedyXx

When all ICE cars eventually go electric, what will we be talking about on these forums?

Me and you will not live that long to witness it

[cfm56d7b]

I will welcome the quad-motor M3 with a solid state battery. Torque vectoring improvements alone will sway me to buy one.

At the same time, my decision to buy one will not be influenced by how "green" the vehicle might be.

Few facts of interest so the readers can make their own observations:

- In 2022, 60% of electricity in the US was generated by burning fossil fuels; source EPA.

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427

- Petroleum - or petcoke - is not a household term but it should be. Petcoke is a byproduct of oil refining. The US is the largest petcoke exporter because it is too dirty to use in the US as fuel. Most of petcoke is exported to India for energy generation. "In 2016, the U.S. sent more than 8 million metric tons of petcoke to India. That’s about 20 times more than in 2010, and enough to fill the Empire State Building eight times"

https://apnews.com/article/india-bus...eada36eaeac247

- Nickel is a critical metal used in battery manufacturing. Norilsk Nickel - based in Russia, the world’s biggest producer of palladium and high-grade nickel and a top producer of platinum, cobalt and copper. "At 1.9 million tons of sulfur dioxide emissions annually, Norilsk produces as much sulfur pollution as the entire U.S. — all concentrated in a city the size of Eugene, Oregon"

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/n...earth-rcna6481

[GOLFFRR]

get that charging network going asap

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by robopp

I really hope Toyota’s promise comes to fruition, but I’m not going to hold my breath. Those are some bold promises and have to be done at production level without costing a fortune.

They made these same claims before in 2014, 2017, 2020, and now 2023.

For what its worth, Toyota does hold the most patents in solid state battery sector.

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by XxThe_RemedyXx

When all ICE cars eventually go electric, what will we be talking about on these forums?

Perhaps the latest remixed Hans Zimmer soundtrack… 🤣

[PipeM3]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

Wrong. People will buy them. Just not the same people.

This is why I bought a G80, not a Taycan.

Personally I have a hard time believing this.

On point!

[LemonOne]

I still don't understand EVs.
Why do you want to constantly deal and worry about "range anxiety"?
It was not a thing before.
I hope BMW builds ICE cars until at least 2030.

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by jmg

https://www.mining.com/ancient-volca...urce-on-earth/

Invest in whomever is going to get to mine at McDermitt Caldera.

They just going to ignore this is on a sacred Native American burial ground? It goes from...US is stolen land from Native Americans, to finding the largest lithium deposit under Native American land...now its f*ck'em lets mine. Typical hypocrites.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by ///M TOWN

Now look at them

Scrambling to catch up

I don't believe it's going to hurt them, TBH. The media is putting pressure on them to "catch up" but I think they have the better long term strategy.