[Berzerker]

Originally Posted by Defragster

Hey guys,

are EBC Reds really a little less bite then OEM brembos? I would love to get rid of the dust, but I think OEM pads could already have better bite (especially when not driving on sport setting on brake) and dont wanna give up stopping power.

Also, how is EBC yellow dust compared to OEM pads?

I would say that (having reds in the rear) the initial bite is maybe slightly less, but the stopping power is nearly identical. If I'm on the brakes, I can't notice any difference between the stock brembos and the Reds. I have iSweep 1500s in the front but my understanding (both from reading and seeing the dust) is that the rear brakes get used a lot more than the fronts.

[kgelfen360]

Originally Posted by Berzerker

I would say that (having reds in the rear) the initial bite is maybe slightly less, but the stopping power is nearly identical. If I'm on the brakes, I can't notice any difference between the stock brembos and the Reds. I have iSweep 1500s in the front but my understanding (both from reading and seeing the dust) is that the rear brakes get used a lot more than the fronts.

It’s crazy cuz rear caliper so small!!! Why didn’t they put something a little more substantial in the back ???

[Mautofied17]

Anybody receive shipping notifications from the 09/29 shipment? ECS pushed my date back again…

[geko29]

Originally Posted by Berzerker

my understanding (both from reading and seeing the dust) is that the rear brakes get used a lot more than the fronts.

They get used heavily for traction and stability control, not so much for stopping the car. If your rears are wearing quickly/dusting a lot, that means the nannies are working hard to keep you safe.

[SE7EN335]

I was previously on Yellowstuff and was running that on JB4 map 2 power. Now that I am on upgraded turbos and e40 mix, I have gone one step above to Bluestuff. And I feel the braking is perfect for slowing down my current horsepower level. I personally wouldn't even put Redstuff on stock power as I heard the initial bite is noticeably less than factory OEM

[Berzerker]

Originally Posted by geko29

They get used heavily for traction and stability control, not so much for stopping the car. If your rears are wearing quickly/dusting a lot, that means the nannies are working hard to keep you safe.

So all 4 brakes are used an equal amount for normal braking power? Odd that my rears are dusting more since I don't really feel or put myself in a lot situations day to day for the SC or TC to come into play

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by SE7EN335

I was previously on Yellowstuff and was running that on JB4 map 2 power. Now that I am on upgraded turbos and e40 mix, I have gone one step above to Bluestuff. And I feel the braking is perfect for slowing down my current horsepower level. I personally wouldn't even put Redstuff on stock power as I heard the initial bite is noticeably less than factory OEM

Thats why I went with yellow, but my customers were so happy with red that they got me to reconsider.

I will test the red on my car once they are back in stock and will report back on whether I prefer them over the yellow

[geko29]

Originally Posted by Berzerker

So all 4 brakes are used an equal amount for normal braking power? Odd that my rears are dusting more since I don't really feel or put myself in a lot situations day to day for the SC or TC to come into play

Fronts should be used much more, because you're starting with more weight in the front, and then transferring additional weight there by braking. Of course they're bigger, so they can handle it better, but in straight line braking the overwhelming majority of the work is done by the front pads.

[Berzerker]

Originally Posted by geko29

Fronts should be used much more, because you're starting with more weight in the front, and then transferring additional weight there by braking. Of course they're bigger, so they can handle it better, but in straight line braking the overwhelming majority of the work is done by the front pads.

That's if you're assuming all 4 brakes are "used" when pressing the pedal, but it's been mentioned here that the rear brakes are "primary" when it comes to applying them to stop the car, which is why they wear quicker. Of course if they do all get used all the time, then it'd be because they're smaller.

[Berzerker]

mike@x-ph.com do you have any EBC fronts available in any upcoming shipments?

[HP Autosport]

The front EBC Red Stuff has an estimated ship date of around 10-14. Rears are good to ship right now.

PM for a quote.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by Berzerker

mike@x-ph.com do you have any EBC fronts available in any upcoming shipments?

4 front shipments on their way

if EBC gets them first, they will drop ship it directly to customers. if we get our shipment first, we will process our orders directly.

Rears in stock.

[geko29]

Originally Posted by Berzerker

That's if you're assuming all 4 brakes are "used" when pressing the pedal, but it's been mentioned here that the rear brakes are "primary" when it comes to applying them to stop the car, which is why they wear quicker. Of course if they do all get used all the time, then it'd be because they're smaller.

I'd want to see some engineering documentation on that, since it literally defies the laws of physics. Also, if that were the case, we all would be keenly aware of it. Braking only the rear wheels feels VERY different than only (or primarily) the fronts. The car squats instead of diving, and it is very easy to lock up the rear tires. It would also make the car incredibly dangerous when braking while turning. Like Porsche 930 Turbo sliding ass-first into a tree dangerous. Anyone who's ever ridden a motorcycle is intimately familiar with these dynamics.

Also quite curious that it seems the gentleman responsible for developing the brakes on M cars either isn't aware that the rear brakes are the primary, or didn't think it was worth mentioning such in this nearly 5-minute technical video describing the G8X braking system. This despite the fact that there are dedicated sections on the braking control software and on the rear brakes, respectively. Since this would be one of the only cars to operate this way, that's a puzzling omission, don't you think? After all, the C8 is one car that actually DOES have rear-biased (40/60) brakes, and they spent a hell of a lot of time talking about it during the pre-launch period.

[Berzerker]

Originally Posted by geko29

I'd want to see some engineering documentation on that, since it literally defies the laws of physics. Also, if that were the case, we all would be keenly aware of it. Braking only the rear wheels feels VERY different than only (or primarily) the fronts. The car squats instead of diving, and it is very easy to lock up the rear tires. It would also make the car incredibly dangerous when braking while turning. Like Porsche 930 Turbo sliding ass-first into a tree dangerous. Anyone who's ever ridden a motorcycle is intimately familiar with these dynamics.

Also quite curious that it seems the gentleman responsible for developing the brakes on M cars either isn't aware that the rear brakes are the primary, or didn't think it was worth mentioning such in this nearly 5-minute technical video describing the G8X braking system. This despite the fact that there are dedicated sections on the braking control software and on the rear brakes, respectively. Since this would be one of the only cars to operate this way, that's a puzzling omission, don't you think? After all, the C8 is one car that actually DOES have rear-biased (40/60) brakes, and they spent a hell of a lot of time talking about it during the pre-launch period.

Yeah of course I don't have documentation to back this up, and my last sentence did demonstrate that. I'm mostly going off of what I've read.

I'm also not talking about in this in every situation though, but primarily. Some light, red light, you see it a mile away, kind of braking. You're not going dive or squat in that situation, but smash the pedal with someone running out in front of you, all 4 will get used and you'd definitely notice a dive.

As far as what BMW has released publicly, after talking with an S58 engineer for a while there's a *lot* of stuff BMW does not tell us (understandably) about the inner workings of the car, so I wouldn't be surprised of anything anymore.

[geko29]

Originally Posted by Berzerker

I'm also not talking about in this in every situation though, but primarily. Some light, red light, you see it a mile away, kind of braking. You're not going dive or squat in that situation, but smash the pedal with someone running out in front of you, all 4 will get used and you'd definitely notice a dive.

You would still feel it. If you still have a car with a manual handbrake, get up to a normal speed and then pull it enough to gradually reduce your speed. There's a sensation of drag that is very different than light braking with all 4 brakes applied.

The S58 tuning isn't a great comparison, because there you're talking about arcane things like fuel maps and boost thresholds in particular operational modes that are specific to this engine and this engine only. Here we're talking about the fundamental operation of one of the most basic systems in the car being altered so it is both completely different and significantly less efficient than the same system in every other front-engine car ever made by anyone. They would have needed a pretty fantastic reason to do that, and presumably they'd be very proud of their innovation if there was in fact such a reason.

[Mautofied17]

To get this thread back on track, I've given up on the EBC Reds.

After waiting 60 days with a new ship date estimated every week, I cancelled my order and ordered the iSweep 1500s, which are in stock with RG Sport.

I also didn't realize how much the brake pads show through the caliper - I have black calipers and am glad the iSweeps look OEM.

[Tubes23]

Originally Posted by Berzerker

Yeah of course I don't have documentation to back this up, and my last sentence did demonstrate that. I'm mostly going off of what I've read.

I'm also not talking about in this in every situation though, but primarily. Some light, red light, you see it a mile away, kind of braking. You're not going dive or squat in that situation, but smash the pedal with someone running out in front of you, all 4 will get used and you'd definitely notice a dive.

As far as what BMW has released publicly, after talking with an S58 engineer for a while there's a *lot* of stuff BMW does not tell us (understandably) about the inner workings of the car, so I wouldn't be surprised of anything anymore.

I think you’re mistaking how the eDiff’s work on performance variants that do not come with mechanically operating diff’s ie M performance models M40/M50’s etc where the rear brakes are applied to mimic a diff and to help rotate the vehicle. Wouldn’t be uncommon for rears to wear twice as quickly on these vehicles if driven hard.

Historically the ‘aids’ (steering etc) used to apply brakes to help maintain a position of the vehicle, I don’t believe that’s the case anymore due to the camera technology that supports lane positioning that uses steering input but it could be.

[Berzerker]

Originally Posted by Tubes23

I think you’re mistaking how the eDiff’s work on performance variants that do not come with mechanically operating diff’s ie M performance models M40/M50’s etc where the rear brakes are applied to mimic a diff and to help rotate the vehicle. Wouldn’t be uncommon for rears to wear twice as quickly on these vehicles if driven hard.

Historically the ‘aids’ (steering etc) used to apply brakes to help maintain a position of the vehicle, I don’t believe that’s the case anymore due to the camera technology that supports lane positioning that uses steering input but it could be.

If you're talking about a situation where a diff would come into play (nannies keeping the car from sliding out) then that *is* the rears being used more often even on full Ms like the G8x.

I'm talking about in situations where you're just braking normally without something like DSC/TC needing to intervene.

[Tubes23]

Originally Posted by Berzerker

If you're talking about a situation where a diff would come into play (nannies keeping the car from sliding out) then that *is* the rears being used more often even on full Ms like the G8x.

I'm talking about in situations where you're just braking normally without something like DSC/TC needing to intervene.

I am talking about situations where the diff would come into play but full fat M cars are installed with mechanical diffs and do not use the rears brakes unlike m performance variants.

[HP Autosport]

We have a shipment from EBC, and some sets aren't spoken for yet. Shoot us a PM if you are looking for these.

[86zccrx]

I may be overthinking this, but would the red stuff brake pads look strange on a G80 with Blue calipers? I'm not sure how much of the pad is visible when they are installed.

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by 86zccrx

I may be overthinking this, but would the red stuff brake pads look strange on a G80 with Blue calipers? I'm not sure how much of the pad is visible when they are installed.

A very good alternative is the Porterfield R4-S. The backing plate is black if that matters to you.