[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by mbanck

I don't think that's how it works.

The current thinking at M seems to be: approx. 50kg weight reduction -> CS. And approx 100kg weight reduction -> CSL (of course, plus all the other stuff).

So it's relative to the (base M) car's weight, not some "if it is < 1650 kg, it's a CSL" total weight thing.

The F87 M2 is complicated due to the Competition having a different engine for emissions regulations and the F87 M2 Competition was apparently originally supposed to be a CS, while a CSL was planned that would ultimately become the CS. But those plans were shattered when they had to replace the base model with an S55 engine based car so both models had to come down one step in the ladder.
See here: https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/showpost.php?p=27238312&postcount=25

Didn't they take off almost a hundred from the M5CS?

[HudsonHornett]

Originally Posted by MadBimmeRad

Didn't they take off almost a hundred from the M5CS?

Think it was 70 Kg.

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by HudsonHornett

Think it was 70 Kg.

Right you are my Jedi

[HudsonHornett]

Originally Posted by MadBimmeRad

Right you are my Jedi

On the subject of weight, I think the CSL has done pretty well to come in at 1625Kg, especially when you consider the size of the thing.

A 911 Turbo S weighs 1640Kg, an Aston Martin Vantage F1Edition is around 1530Kg dry, so with fluids will be within a gnat's whisker of the CSL, an E92 M3 was around 1640Kg IIRC, even the M3 GTS was around 1605Kg.

Sure the GT3 is a LOT lighter but to be fair it's the GT3 that's the outlier (in a good sense) not the CSL.

[Hit_Apex]

Love me some hot GT3 talk. Have these CSL reviews inspired anyone to run out and buy one? Many new / very low mileage 992's in the $280k-$320k range that are available today.

[2011ninja]

Originally Posted by Hit_Apex

Love me some hot GT3 talk. Have these CSL reviews inspired anyone to run out and buy one? Many new / very low mileage 992's in the $280k-$320k range that are available today.

Low mileage and $280K+

Let me get my check book.

Yeah I know a lot of you have never heard of a check book or seen a U.S Postage stamp before. 🎉

[Gunnerforlife]

Originally Posted by Jason

More M4 CSL reviews are now here. This is a compiled list to-date:

ARTICLES

Autocar
Autoexpress
Car and Driver
CAR
EVO
Pistonheads
Top Gear




VIDEOS

Two additional reviews:

https://www.whatcar.com/news/2022-bm...-review/n24984

https://carbuzz.com/reviews/2023-bmw...ew-light-it-up

[Liquid2.0T]

Originally Posted by Hit_Apex

Love me some hot GT3 talk. Have these CSL reviews inspired anyone to run out and buy one? Many new / very low mileage 992's in the $280k-$320k range that are available today.

The reviews have certainly inspired me to buy a GT3, however at $300K my wallet doesn't feel the same way.

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by HudsonHornett

On the subject of weight, I think the CSL has done pretty well to come in at 1625Kg, especially when you consider the size of the thing.

A 911 Turbo S weighs 1640Kg, an Aston Martin Vantage F1Edition is around 1530Kg dry, so with fluids will be within a gnat's whisker of the CSL, an E92 M3 was around 1640Kg IIRC, even the M3 GTS was around 1605Kg.

Sure the GT3 is a LOT lighter but to be fair it's the GT3 that's the outlier (in a good sense) not the CSL.

Indeed, those who critique BMW so harshly need be reminded, many cars from multiple manufacturers are larger, and heftier, than their preceding generations - there's just too much tech going into cars now to keep them safer and less polluting all the while providing all the Tech-Tastic gizmos and creature comfort tid-bits. In my days, as an example, you knew how to reverse into a parking space, it was a given, it was part of driving. Now, you have a thousand gadgets helping folks park their cars.

.... to add to your excellent summation, if anything is worrisome about the CSL, it might be that Porsche executives would be worried how close has BMW come to upper echelon of their, admittedly brilliant, lineup.

Yes, M4CSL is no GT3 yet,but BMW has come a long way and will no doubt go even longer. Porsche will always be Porsche, BMW BMW, each with its own heritage, and each with its own niche.

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by Gunnerforlife

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Two additional reviews:

https://www.whatcar.com/news/2022-bmw-m4-csl-review/n24984

https://carbuzz.com/reviews/2023-bmw-m4-csl-first-drive-review-light-it-up[/QUOTE]

From Car Buzz:

"What's particularly impressive is despite a focus on hardcore thrills, the M4 CSL manages to retain such civility. Yes, we'd prefer less mid-range thump, but there's no question this CSL delivers on its promise"

and from What Car:

"However, if those M-car purists ever get to have a go behind the wheel of an M4 CSL, they’ll find that BMW has built a truly incredible road car. Indeed, when it comes to pure point-to-point pace, the M4 CSL is staggering capable, but it also manages to involve you in the process of driving. And that’s important. Because unlike in some track-focused specials (here’s looking at you Mercedes AMG GT-R Pro), you'll enjoy the drive to the track just as much as the track day itself.

You better move quickly if you want one, though. Out of the 1000 cars being built, only 100 are coming to the UK. And at £128,820, we can see a lot of enthusiasts being tempted – sounds mad, we know, but the Porsche 911 GT3 (the CSLs closest competitor) is changing hands for over £200,000 on the used market. What a time we live in, eh?

What Car? rating 5 stars out of 5"

[PLF69]

The GT3 with buckets Ok for short distance but its very busy and tiring ride if you need to drive 3hours to the track. But given how they keep there value if you need to drive that much (like I do) might as well trailer it.

What I am wondering is if the CSL will be the same or... ? Time will tell I guess.

[aj_g80]

Originally Posted by Hit_Apex

Love me some hot GT3 talk. Have these CSL reviews inspired anyone to run out and buy one? Many new / very low mileage 992's in the $280k-$320k range that are available today.

gotta be slow to buy a gt3 for 320k.


Porsche fanboys keep those prices high for sure.

[cslll]

Nothing like a bit of controversy to generate press and get people talking! So many angry people on the Top Gear comments section for example.....hilarious. I think the CSL will be a classic because when people actually spend some time in it, run it on a track and then drive it home on a twisty road, it will get adrenaline pumping and raise a smile. 911 GT3 reviews border on pointless as you can't buy one for less than 50% more than an CSL. Plus everyone already knows the GT3 is a total legend but also absolutely brutal on anything other than a billiard table smooth road (lots of reviewers, who are now saying it's unimpeachable, originally said it was almost undrivable on a British B road due to harsh suspension and width of car). I think CSL drivers might be having more fun and, at the very least, not taking life quite as seriously as these GT3 boys who are mainly dreamers and not owners.....

[Hit_Apex]

Originally Posted by aj_g80

gotta be slow to buy a gt3 for 320k.


Porsche fanboys keep those prices high for sure.

Not sure you can make that statement if familiar with Porsche pricing and extensive options. Cars at the higher end are paint to sample, have many of the more exotic options, etc. There is quite a variance in GT3 builds. I don't expect folks who play here on BF to grasp those nuances though. Most just Google 2023 GT3 MSRP and see $169k and make uninformed comments.

[Hit_Apex]

More CSL track action

[VIERsr]

Originally Posted by Hit_Apex

Not sure you can make that statement if familiar with Porsche pricing and extensive options. Cars at the higher end are paint to sample, have many of the more exotic options, etc. There is quite a variance in GT3 builds. I don't expect folks who play here on BF to grasp those nuances though. Most just Google 2023 GT3 MSRP and see $169k and make uninformed comments.

We bought our 992 GT3 at list price with no increase.
The uninformed comments are those who think the crazy rules of the American market apply to the whole world and make worldwide statements, but there is life overseas as well.

[PLF69]

Originally Posted by VIERsr

We bought our 992 GT3 at list price with no increase.
The uninformed comments are those who think the crazy rules of the American market apply to the whole world and make worldwide statements, but there is life overseas as well.

Indeed, there is a law here on new car price that prevents this but the availability isn't any better. Used car price can be whatever so a 300mile GT3 is often much more expensive than a new one. Nowadays even used M3/4 sell for over MSRP.

[VIERsr]

Originally Posted by PLF69

Indeed, there is a law here on new car price that prevents this but the availability isn't any better. Used car price can be whatever so a 300mile GT3 is often much more expensive than a new one. Nowadays even used M3/4 sell for over MSRP.

Of course, independent garages or private sellers can price whatever they want, especially for cars that are very rare or hard to get. If you want a GT3 right now, the only way is to pay a lot more for it and get a used one, but if you have patience and time to wait you can get a good deal.
Anyway, here official dealers MUST stick to official prices by law, the price you see on the configurator is the price you will pay (plus local taxes).
Same for M2CS, M4 GTS and so on.

[reNT]

this csl is nothing more than a marketing gimmick where most of its handling performance improvement comes from the more aggressive tyres which one could fit on the regular m4. Good to see some of the reviews agree without being biased.

[aj_g80]

Originally Posted by Hit_Apex

Not sure you can make that statement if familiar with Porsche pricing and extensive options. Cars at the higher end are paint to sample, have many of the more exotic options, etc. There is quite a variance in GT3 builds. I don't expect folks who play here on BF to grasp those nuances though. Most just Google 2023 GT3 MSRP and see $169k and make uninformed comments.

Porsche pricing is a joke, especially PTS. Thank goodness i skipped over the P car phase. Lots of people are tired of their shit.

[LuvMyE92]

Originally Posted by Davil

It [DCT] queues the next gear (up v down) based on driver input. So that's more user error than anything else. If it hesitates you are asking for something that doesn't make sense.

I had a Porsche Panamera S (V8) and the PDK was the one thing that made me get rid of it. When I would do something unexpected, like nail the throttle when it was preparing for an upshift, and I wanted a downshift, it would take seconds - not nanoseconds, but seconds - to down shift and get out of the way of whatever it was that was about to run into me. It was the first car that I ever owned with paddles, which I rarely used because I'd click the wrong one about 50% of the time, so I left it in auto mode.

Originally Posted by cslll

Plus everyone already knows the GT3 is a total legend but also absolutely brutal on anything other than a billiard table smooth road (lots of reviewers, who are now saying it's unimpeachable, originally said it was almost undrivable on a British B road due to harsh suspension and width of car).

I don't think everyone knows that, but they should. What fun is a car that is designed for the track, but is unbearable for the drive to and from the track? Not all of us want to own and store and drive a truck & trailer.

Originally Posted by PLF69

Nowadays even used M3/4 sell for over MSRP.

True that. I sold my M4 for more than MSRP earlier this year.

Originally Posted by aj_g80

Porsche pricing is a joke

OMG yes. No more for me.

Even though my track days are mostly behind me, I still think about buying an M3 again - this time it will be exactly what I want, not just whatever I was able to get. Don't need the CS or CSL or any of that fancy stuff. 473 horsepower is adequate for my needs.

[HudsonHornett]

Originally Posted by reNT

this csl is nothing more than a marketing gimmick where most of its handling performance improvement comes from the more aggressive tyres which one could fit on the regular m4. Good to see some of the reviews agree without being biased.

Have you driven an M4 CSL? There is literally no way that the tyres alone make up the difference between it and the RWD M4 Comp. And there is only ONE review that even alludes to the tyres being the major factor in the car's enhanced performance, so a clear example of confirmation bias here. Most of the reviews were done on MPS4S in any case.