View Poll Results: DCT or traditional AT? | |||
I prefer a DCT. | 235 | 60.57% | |
I prefer a traditional AT. | 32 | 8.25% | |
Either is fine with me. | 53 | 13.66% | |
I don't care. No manual, no purchase. | 68 | 17.53% | |
Voters: 388. You may not vote on this poll |
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07-12-2019, 09:25 AM | #89 | |
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One possibility is that the additional lag was needed for rev matching and so there might be some conditions where the lag was minimal - so maybe you can measure the 'golden shift' ;-) Or perhaps they just quote how long it takes for the mechanical parts of the gearbox to do their job, ignoring the software issues? Either way, nothing makes you feel more detached from the driving experience than pulling a shift paddle and the car making it clear that it will change gear whenever it feels like it. The M-DCT doesn't have this problem and is the first automatic transmission I ever enjoyed driving. Edit: The Wikipedia page for the VW/Audi DSG claims 8ms (!) for upshifts and "a consistent 600ms" for downshifts due to rev matching. I don't personally recall any consistency - but perhaps the difference between upshifts and downshifts partly explained my frustrations. Last edited by pbar; 07-12-2019 at 06:16 PM.. |
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07-12-2019, 06:07 PM | #90 |
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I believe it is from disengagement of one gear and the engagement of the other. So time off-power in other words. Problem is the lag from the time the human pulls the paddle to when this process actually begins.
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07-13-2019, 06:46 AM | #91 |
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Yesterday I drove my M4 (DCT) and my friends Alfa Romeo Giulia (ZF 8 Speed) back to back on the same roads in the Northwest Corner of Connecticut. I did not see an issue with the shift speed on the ZF.
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07-15-2019, 08:15 AM | #92 | |
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F90 M5 was no better, it hates to revving out to redline on upshifts and hesitates a lot on downshifts even though there is plenty of revs. I had to input multiple times for shifts to happen.
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07-15-2019, 06:13 PM | #93 | |
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Here's to hoping it has more in common with the M8! Amazing in-car footage from the Goodwood hill climb. The commentator mentions an "8 speed steptronic" but the steering wheel/paddles don't look cheap and nasty (CF), and the upshifts at least sound good. Hard to tell how responsive it is on downshifts (can't see the driver's left hand), but this video makes me feel a bit better better. (helped by the outrageously loud exhaust setup!) Last edited by pbar; 07-15-2019 at 06:34 PM.. |
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07-15-2019, 06:17 PM | #94 | |
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Can't believe we're having this convo... here I am thinking bimmer was going to come with a revised DCT setup something that could give PDK/DSG a run for its money but instead I'm worrying if I'll have the same damn trans i currently own in an M3..🤦🏽
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07-15-2019, 06:30 PM | #95 | ||
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Still not where it should be. To me Porsche is the king with PDK But for fun and engagement mine heart belongs to MT
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07-17-2019, 11:33 AM | #96 |
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DCT or ZF 8HP are basically the same thing in practice. I'm not sure why people who prefer automatics care that much that it's a ZF 8HP and not a DCT anymore. You get better low speed driving manners, still imperceptibly fast shift times, a better ratio spread, and you don't have to operate a clutch. Why do you care so much how it works? The ZF 8HP locks up the torque converter after a start so you don't have the "slush box" effect of older/cheaper automatics. You pretty much never have to worry about clutch wear. What to you, is the defining characteristic of a DCT that makes it so much better than the ZF 8HP?
A manual is just completely different while the ZF 8HP and DCT are millimeters apart to the driver. Losing the manual is a big deal. Moving from one auto to another auto is not. |
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07-17-2019, 01:53 PM | #97 |
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Audi also uses a DCT in the RS3. But guess what, they use a ZF 8HP for all their longitudinal cars. They only use the DCT because they have to. THere are no transverse planetary automatics that perform well enough to use in a performance car. I guarantee you that Merc or Audi would use torque converted automatics in their front drive cars if they could fit them.
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07-17-2019, 01:54 PM | #98 | |
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07-17-2019, 02:16 PM | #99 | |
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Look at this M5 video. Completely different from the video you showed. I think that person just doesn't know how to drive the car. Last edited by upsidedownfunnel; 07-17-2019 at 02:23 PM.. |
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07-17-2019, 03:42 PM | #100 | |
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I will test drive the M5 in a week or two and will certainly make sure to set up all of the appropriate shift modes. Perhaps this why various folks have reported it to be sluggish? (I *really* hope so) |
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07-17-2019, 09:49 PM | #101 | |
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If you short shift well before the redline(~6000 rpm) upshift responds ok but not great. Downshifts were slow no matter what I tried, especially if I try to shift the same way I do with my M3, dropping lower gear right near the redline. Compare that with this.
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07-18-2019, 08:17 AM | #102 |
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The difference is enough that I don't think I would buy a zf8 vehicle in the future. Just got a loaner with a zf8 and I don't like the way it feels when it shifts, it has this odd feeling I'm not sure how to describe that makes the car feel like it sort of lurches in a strange way. The down shifts were slow. It doesn't really feel mechanical. I don't like it. The DCT feels crisp. I know you're rolling you eyes, but keep in mind the general public rolls their eyes when someone complains the MT is less available now and will be gone some day.
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07-24-2019, 07:06 AM | #103 |
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Rev seems to run out faster on G80 vs. F8x. High revving what?
I would hate this short of gear ratio on track. At 1:01 At 0:33 and at 1:43
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07-24-2019, 07:17 AM | #104 | |
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Don't give a crap about "shift speed". Care more about how things feel. ZF feels like garbage. DCT is a good compromise. Manual is the real deal.
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07-24-2019, 08:10 AM | #105 | |
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07-24-2019, 11:36 AM | #107 |
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Honestly, with the options being Auto or 6MT, I think they're going to see more manual sales than the F80 did. Still an auto, still a torque converter. Less crisp than a DCT and therefore may push more people over towards a 3 pedal set up.
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07-24-2019, 02:27 PM | #109 |
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I know this is being rediculous: but I want a DCT or even SMG IV (that never breaks and has a modern computer and a dogbox).
I'm an M5 guy anyway so bmw feel free to ignore me. I realize BMW M wants these things but that BMW proper will not allow any way. |
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07-24-2019, 02:34 PM | #110 |
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I don't understand how people say ZF is a downgrade from DCT. If that were the case why would BMW do that? On the M3 platform no less. An auto is an auto no matter how you slice it. I'm pretty sure BMW can make the ZF just as quick and responsive as the DCT.
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