05-17-2023, 07:30 PM | #67 | |
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P.S. If I can get my hands on a GT3 at $30k or less over sticker, I'm on it.....hell or high water. My Carrera S is already one hell of a car though. |
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05-17-2023, 07:39 PM | #68 | |
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The reasons GT3 is a better performance car are severalfold. Adjustable suspension, rear weight bias, properly engineered and interchangeable engine and chassis components from the Cup car, etc. Then again, I do not think there is really a "better" car for everyone. My driving style, for example, is really not conducive to extracting the most from front-engine, FWD, or AWD cars. After nearly, 30 years of being on racing circuits, driving amateurishly, and working as a suspension technician, I never figured how to drive those cars. The rear-engine with RWD is my sweet spot or a mid-engine RWD. There may be a car out there that is universally the best of all performance cars, if I cannot drive it well, it won't be the best for me. I am glad the CSL exists, not that I will be buying one, but it makes the market exciting and gives people like me the choice of at least considering alternatives. |
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05-17-2023, 07:46 PM | #69 | |
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...and about knowing how to "use a performance car", the large majority of people couldn't handle an ///M product [on a race track] with all nannies turned completely off. Nannies give drivers a false sense of ability. A lot of us track, and I'm admittedly a bike guy more than a car guy when it comes to race track time/experience, but we are the minority of performance car owners. We are outliers and should not be considered a representation of car owners as a whole. |
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05-17-2023, 08:17 PM | #71 | |
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BMW's system + the front engine rear biased traction slaps you in the face more when you screw up. Anyways like you said we are only a tiny minority that will be on track DSC all off in our BMW's, main customer base would probably be scared to death about changing there oil, bleeding brakes or swapping pads and doing a bed in.
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05-17-2023, 08:37 PM | #72 | |
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When I first moved from the 600cc bikes to the Duc 848 ....and then to my current Panigale V4's 1000cc powerhouse motor, it took quite a bit of adjustment on the racetrack before I was as comfortable on the V4 as I was on the 848. I had to change my riding style quite a bit and things I could get away with on the 848 I could not get away with on the V4. In many ways, I'm STILL learning that bike and I've owned it since the V4 first came out. |
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05-17-2023, 08:46 PM | #73 | |
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However, a reasonable person would expect that the most expensive car should have the best performance. Hopefully, you'll find this statement to be non-controversial. I just think it is not really insightful to contrast the performances of cars at different price points. Would you be surprised that the Rimac Nevera outperforms the 911 GT3 on many metrics? Of course not (well, I hope not). If you absolutely want to compare the BMW M4 CSL to another car in the Porsche lineup, why don't you select one that is at the same price point as the CSL: the 911 Carrera S. The P-car is priced slightly above the CSL when matching options (CCB, Carbon Roof, PASM, SportDesign Package, etc; ~145K USD). I don't recall anyone doing a side-by-side comparison review of these two cars, but I would bet a lot of money that the CSL would vastly outperform its "price-matched" comparator in the Porsche lineup. Same money, different performance: that is newsworthy and worth "jumping up and down in triumph".
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05-17-2023, 10:57 PM | #74 | |
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The 911 is a street oriented 4 seater, not the same car. Go ahead, jump up and down all you want.
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05-18-2023, 03:35 AM | #75 |
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05-18-2023, 07:20 AM | #76 | |
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After spending time with both, CSL is on par with 992 GTS Lightweight. |
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05-18-2023, 08:00 AM | #77 | |
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Nürburgring Nordschleife best lap time: 718 Cayman GT4: 7:32.000 (Reference: Sport Auto - 5/2020) M4 CSL: 7:15.677 Any other questions? I'm not the "jumping up and down" type.
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05-18-2023, 09:29 AM | #78 | |
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Both the CSL and GT4 RS cost around $140k MSRP. The GT4 RS laps the Ring I think 6 seconds quicker than the CSL, but it is not just that which makes it better in my opinion. It is a better high performance driving tool all-around: lighter, with more feedback, more nuance, much easier on consumables. It looks better (although I acknowledge this is very subjective). It sounds a lot better.
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05-18-2023, 09:54 AM | #79 |
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GT4 RS starts over $160k, and commands a market adjusted premium of nearly $100k over the CSL.
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05-18-2023, 09:55 AM | #80 | |
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Porsche announced recently a price increase on its 718 lineup, so the analysis above is very conservative (www.roadandtrack.com/news/a43452311/2024-porsche-718-boxster-cayman-price-increase/). Please check post #74 above regarding the value (or lack thereof) of comparing cars at different price points.
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05-18-2023, 10:04 AM | #81 | |
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05-18-2023, 12:25 PM | #82 |
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No skin here but was at the dealer yesterday for my GTS (service) and saw this machine--- 100k over ask so circa 300k. I didnt even check the msrp because... why LOL But the GM told me that's the starting point and he said he will probably get 80 over.
No way is the GT4RS even remotely in the same price ballpark marketwise. Even sticker to sticker isnt close.
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2024 BMW M3 CS Frozen Solid White 2022 Porsche Carrera GTS Coupe Shark Blue 2020 Audi R8 V10 Performance Suzuka Gray 2012 Mercedes Benz C63 AMG Black Series Obsidian Black Last edited by Vic55; 05-18-2023 at 12:39 PM.. |
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05-18-2023, 06:05 PM | #84 | |||
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Thank you guys! People need to stop the nonsense already. Clearly there are a lot of people tapping fingers on a keyboard who don't have any idea whatsoever about the real cost(s) of obtaining GT Porsches. It is laughable that "MSRP" and "Porsche GT_" are even mentioned in the same sentence. |
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05-21-2023, 03:48 PM | #85 | |
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I attended my first track day of the season this Thursday and there was a beautiful GT4RS in Arctic Grey Metallic. Very nice owner, and he paid MSRP for it. But it is still way more expensive than an M4 CSL...
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05-21-2023, 03:58 PM | #86 |
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05-21-2023, 05:58 PM | #87 | |
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05-21-2023, 08:15 PM | #88 |
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Did he bust the 92db limit ?
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