02-15-2019, 12:25 AM | #67 |
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Z35is - I looked at the Alfa as well - wasn't too fond of the tighter interior space or poor rated reliability.
I also went to the local BMW dealer to check out the f80. I was shocked to see that the salesman admit how much better the Tesla was and he didn't even try to compete. The last one I checked out was a Macan Turbo, and it was fairly apples to oranges, despite Porsches claims that the Macan is a sports car. Not only did the Macan feel slow, the steering was disappointingly light. The dealership experience was the nicest, as were the quilted leather seats. Neither could make up for the underwhelming performance and handling though. |
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02-15-2019, 11:50 AM | #68 | |
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02-17-2019, 11:10 AM | #69 |
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Need more objective comparison? Before G80 M3 specs are out, one can only speculate, the closest is using F80 M3 as reference.
F80 M3 vs Model 3 P: - 0-60 (3.9s vs 3.3s) - Top Speed (167mph vs 155mph) - Length (184.6" vs 185") - Width (73.9" vs 73") - Height (56.1" vs 56.5") - Wheelbase (110.7" vs 113.2") - Front Track (62.2" vs 62.2") - Rear Track (63.1" vs 62.2") - Weight (3,630 lbs vs 4,072 lbs) - Roof (CF Roof vs Glass Roof) - Software Update (less vs more) - Torsional Rigidity (40,000 Nm/deg vs 19,000 Nm/deg) Note: this is for Model S, likely similar for Model 3 - Insurance Cost (lower vs higher) Note: in general, could vary depended on individual cases - Range on full tank or full charge (300+ miles vs 310+ miles) - Refuel or Recharge (minutes vs hours) - Front Wheel/Tire (20 x 9.0" 265/30 vs 20 x 8.5" 235/35) - Rear Wheel/Tire (20 x 10.0" 285/30 vs 20 x 8.5" 235/35) G80 M3 vs Model 3 P: (Speculation on future improvement) - 0-60 (sub 3.0s vs sub 3.0s) - Top Speed (177+mph vs 164+mph) Note: improve by 6% on both - Length (188.4" vs 185") - Width (74.5" vs 73") - Height (56.6" vs 56.5") - Wheelbase (112.3" vs 113.2") - Front Track (64.3" vs 62.2") - Rear Track (64.12" vs 62.2") - Weight (3,630 lbs vs 4,072 lbs) - Range on full tank or full charge (330+ miles vs 330+ miles) - Torsional Rigidity (50,000 Nm/deg vs 23,750 Nm/deg) Note: improve by 25% on both, for cross reference, 50,000 Nm/deg is in the range of Buggati Chiron) - Front Wheel/Tire (20 x 9.5" 275/30 vs 20 x 8.5" 245/30) Note: Model 3 P may need wider fender - Rear Wheel/Tire (20 x 10.0" 285/30 vs 20 x 9.5" 265/30) Note: Model 3 P may need wider fender G80 dimension is derived from G20 based on F30/F80 scale. Refer to this post: https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...&postcount=564 Would be interesting to know Model 3 P's brake system, disc dimension, number of pistons in calipers, etc. With either brake system, I'd go for extra virgin on the brake fluid! Last edited by Mii; 02-17-2019 at 07:19 PM.. |
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02-17-2019, 08:55 PM | #70 | |
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1) We should compare interior dimensions too. F80 is tighter on the interior (legroom etc) whereas G20/80 should be closer to the P3. P3 has nearly as much interior room (97 cu ft) as the M5 (98.7 cu ft) 2) Weight for G80 in AWD form should be very close to the P3. 3) Drag coefficient - 0.22 for the 3. Do you have the same for F80? 4) It will be interesting to see if G80 gets sub 3 s 0-60. P3 is nearly there with people getting it ~3.1s. |
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02-17-2019, 10:43 PM | #71 | |
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- Head Room F/R (40.3" / 37.7" vs 39.6" ~ 40.3" / 37.7") - Leg Room F/R (42.0" / 35.1" vs 42.7" / 35.2") - Shoulder Room F/R (55.1" / 55.1" vs 56.3" / 54.0") - Trunk Capacity (15.8 cu ft vs 15 cu ft) - Drag Coefficient (Cd) (0.34 vs 0.23) G80 M3 vs Model 3P: (Speculation) - Head Room F/R (38.7" / 37.6" vs 39.6" ~ 40.3" / 37.7") - Leg Room F/R (42.0" / 35.2" vs 42.7" / 35.2") - Shoulder Room F/R (56.0" / 54.6" vs 56.3" / 54.0") - Trunk Capacity (17 cu ft vs 15 cu ft) - Drag Coefficient (Cd) (0.23 ~ 0.26 vs 0.22) G20 3-Series had 0.23 ~ 0.26 (Cd), G30 5-Series had 0.22 (Cd) which is impressive compared to Model 3P 0.23 (Cd). F80 M3 had higher 0.34 (Cd) compared to F30 0.29 (Cd), would not expect G80 M3 to be much lower than G20 unless BMW improves aerodynamics on G80 M3. F90 M5 AWD had slightly lower weight than F10 M5 RWD. G20 is lighter than F30, would expect G80 M3 weight to be similar to F80 M3 if not lower. |
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02-18-2019, 12:37 AM | #72 | |
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F30/80 is already heavily weight optimized. Adding AWD will only make it heavier. I should also add that a 911 Turbo is 3670 lbs and it is a much smaller car. My guess would be at least 3,850 lbs for an AWD M3. Last edited by Ras550; 02-18-2019 at 12:45 AM.. |
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02-20-2019, 10:52 AM | #73 | ||
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I was pro ICE for the longest time until I test drove a Model 3 P and now I have one on order... For all those that are knocking the car, I highly suggest testing one out as I think you'll be surprised. |
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02-20-2019, 02:28 PM | #74 |
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02-20-2019, 09:28 PM | #75 | |
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the model 3 seems to be a genuinely good car from the reviews i’ve seen, but it’s a commuter. it’s not a road trip car or a winter car. i see porsches and the occasional m3 on my long road trips but never teslas. i dont really consider the teslas to be “real cars” as they are a niche product and not something generally useful. |
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02-21-2019, 06:23 AM | #76 | |
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__________________
2018 SMB M3 CS
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02-24-2019, 12:02 AM | #77 | |
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Also remember that model 3 has been destroying others in sales without offering leases in a market where leases outnumber outright sales. You can imagine what happens when they start leasing this year. |
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02-24-2019, 12:27 AM | #78 |
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Yesterday I drove the Tesla Model 3 Performance for an hour. Let me get one thing clear and that is that this car is not a competition for the M3/M4. If you believe it is then imho you do not belong on these forums. Yes the acceleration was fantastic but that’s about it. The M3/M4 is so much more, it’s an icon. When I got into the Model 3 it was a ‘Meh’ experience, there were some quality issues with the interior of the Model 3. The seats were hard and flat, the wood trim on the dash is ugly, ...
When I got back into my M4 I realised how much I love my car from the sexy line to the amazing full leather Merino in Sakhir Orange interior (including dashboard), the analog gauges, the performance, the sound in the cabin (ASD disabled and valves open btw), ... and the looks I still get when driving around. No seriously if you truly believe that the Model 3 is competition you have a mental condition and then it makes me question why the heck you are on these forums, is it because Elon is paying uou for the lobbying? |
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02-24-2019, 12:28 AM | #79 |
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if you price out a m3p vs the F80 m3 as closely as possible, F80 is going to be more expensive hands down after accounting for all the ev credits available. G80 will be no different.
i'm sure some people will still buy the G80 even if it's more expensive and slower in a straight line or 5-60mph than the m3p, performance pedigree, thrill and joy from ICE, consistency at the track, etc. but the problem for BMW is each M3P sold is one too many, it means one less customer for the G80. and don't forget that the G80 needs to compete with alfa, c63, rs4 too, while you can argue that M3P is pretty much in it's own category since it's offering an inherently different product, meaning if you want a performance BEV? this is it, there is no other choice. then again, if the G80 will have trouble from M3P taking away sales then i shudder to think what will happen to the lesser competitors, i honestly can't see a good reason for Lexus or Jaguar to even offer a high performance variant for their entry lvl sedan anymore in the next gen. |
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02-24-2019, 12:35 AM | #80 |
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Like I said those that have chosen the F8x for the brand will choose the G8x. The cars (M3 vs M3P) don’t compare at all! I mean I would love to have a BMW 2002 Turbo from the 70’s but do you think I want it because of the comfort of the ride? A BMW and most certainly a M car is so much more and for those that cannot see or feel this I recommend to choose a Tesla or whatever. When buying a car you should also buy it with your heart.
Last edited by G4BR13L; 02-24-2019 at 02:30 AM.. Reason: Typo |
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02-24-2019, 12:48 AM | #81 | |
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but i think most people who buy performance sedans won't feel this way at all. to those who don't care about "feel" and just want a flashy fast ride, and believe me there are a LOT of these people out there, all it takes is a short test drive, and a look the window sticker. Now if BMW decides to make a BEV G80 that beats the M3P in all specs.... |
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02-24-2019, 02:12 AM | #82 | |
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02-24-2019, 02:20 AM | #83 | |
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Anyway I'm all for competition. If BMW makes an M3 that's a better driver's car than the P3, I'll gladly come back to BMW. F80 is not it though, far from it. |
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02-24-2019, 02:38 AM | #84 | |
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It is possible that I end up ordering a M3P but most certainly not to replace my F82. In the weekends I would without doubt choose the M4 over the M3P. |
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02-24-2019, 03:19 PM | #85 | |
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I've been with BMW for 15 years now (still have a Mini in the family); there's just no sense in being loyal to a point where the brand lets you down and produces subpar vehicles. The brand took a turn for the worse 10 years ago when it decided to chase Mercedes for volume. F10, F30, F80 have been a big step down in driving experience from the prior generation, more hp notwithstanding. Porsche at least has shown the will to rise to the challenge with the Taycan. Nothing from bmw. |
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02-25-2019, 12:49 AM | #87 |
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02-26-2019, 12:22 PM | #88 | |
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a lot of times i feel like the model 3 is just a beta car, a lot of kinks and small annoyances still need to be worked out, but my justification was having autopilot and instant torque for 43K after all the incentives was just too good for me to pass. I'll definitely jump ship as soon as another BEV arrives with slightly better specs and tech for roughly the same price. guess i'll have to keep waiting for another 5 years. |
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