[elias]

If BMW is going to give us a choice between AWD or non-AWD for the next M// generation I am all for it. AWD does wonders for the 911 and R8s of this world.

[Mr.Athansios]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

All wheel drive that you can shut off coming to the M5, so I wonder how long until it's an option or mandatory on the M3/4? Especially given Van Meel is the former Audi RS head.

“The core component of M xDrive is a central intelligence unit with M-specific software delivering integrated control of longitudinal and lateral dynamics. The new drivetrain technology – making its debut on the new BMW M5 – therefore combines all of the agility and precision of standard rear-wheel drive with the supreme poise and traction of the all-wheel-drive system,” explains Frank van Meel, Chairman of the Board of Management of BMW M GmbH.

The driver can choose from five different configurations based on combinations of the DSC modes (DSC on, MDM, DSC off) and M xDrive modes (4WD, 4WD Sport, 2WD).

“If we continue the power increases in the future – especially regarding torque and also horsepower – then probably the next generation M5 and M6 will have so much torque and power that we need to think about those solutions,” says Van Meel.

More here.

Hmm.. I think there is a chance it will be like the M5 for the next M4/M3 gen. But, I also doubt that, because of they did, that would be a better and faster car than the M5 (Which is something they don't want to do). And Knowing BMW, those M4 and below it, the cars are suppose to be sport funky cars! That's why they're rear wheel, to stay pure in it's drifting and traditional rear wheel. The alpina B4 is all wheel drive, but the whole idea is interesting! we have to wait couple years for the leaks and speculations, hehe.

[neilum]

Originally Posted by Kooch

How does turning off the AWD help? Weight is still there. Traction is worse? I feel like the big issue with AWD is the weight not the performance. If you had the option of same weight in a F80 but one with only rear wheels driving and the other with all 4 wheels driving what would you choose?

The tires only have so much traction at any given point. When you power all 4 full-time, you limit or curb the lateral grip they can provide. Therefore ideally you want the fronts doing the turning and rears powering until the rears slip.

This is why two of the best AWD sports cars are mainly RWD cars that *can* send power to the fronts when needed (AKA GTR and 911). While cars like Audi's and Subaru's typically suffer from massive understeer yet they power all 4 tires full time.

Another small benefit to not powering the fronts all the time is an uptick in gas mileage.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by neilum

The tires only have so much traction at any given point. When you power all 4 full-time, you limit or curb the lateral grip they can provide.

This is why two of the best AWD sports cars are mainly RWD cars that *can* send power to the fronts when needed (AKA GTR and 911).

This is a great post, at least for me - for some reason I never brought that together, interesting!

[GrussGott]

I gotta say the results of this poll are surprising (in a anecdotally meaningless way) ... 70% of people either want or don't care about AWD?

[Parabolica]

Or 90% of the people voted for RWD as that's the only common configuration with options 1 and 2. 😀

[Thescout13]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

I gotta say the results of this poll are surprising (in a anecdotally meaningless way) ... 70% of people either want or don't care about AWD?

Maybe it is due to people realizing that it has become a balancing test of power to traction. It is hard to put down big power and keep traction with a car fighting at the M3/4s weight without a very expensive and special type of tire. Thus, the more more in the next gen the more a justification for AWD. Or maybe I?m full of it.

[JibSTir13]

I also think the next generation M3/M4 will have a drive system similar to the upcoming M5.

[ptper]

Put me down for AWD similar to the M5. I was missing Quattro this past winter.

[Powerslide]

Originally Posted by ptper

Put me down for AWD similar to the M5. I was missing Quattro this past winter.

I really don't care either way as long as: 1) it's just as fun or more fun to drive vs the F8x; and 2) it can put power down at least equally as well or better than current gen ZCP.

If the car has increased power and stays RWD - it needs to be able to put the power down, otherwise the traditional benefits of RWD are basically offset.

AWD that defaults to RWD, and only sends power to the front wheels when needed is very intriguing. As long as measures are taken to offset the extra weight of AWD, and the above other criteria are met - I'm in favor of it!

[rosenbergendo]

Same weight and rear biased AWD and I'm in. Car has zero traction even with 295 rears in 1-3rd.

[dmboone25]

AWD makes sense in the grand scheme of things.

[Thescout13]

Originally Posted by ///M_ADDICT

I dont think it'll become AWD because theres still room for RWD to handle more power and torque. The M5/M6 went 600 and 680NM until the change to awd

Yeah but you are overlooking a huge difference, namely the size and weight of the M5 compared to the M3. With that much weight traction is still an issue but not as exaggerated as an M3 with 600 HP. The smaller the car with the bigger the power the more AWD makes sense

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by Thescout13

Yeah but you are overlooking a huge difference, namely the size and weight of the M5 compared to the M3. With that much weight traction is still an issue but not as exaggerated as an M3 with 600 HP. The smaller the car with the bigger the power the more AWD makes sense

I think that's a good point - perhaps the M3/4 could remain RWD, but only if the car gets even bigger. I wouldn't want that - aka I could get my mind around AWD/RWD on the fly, like the new M5 versus a much bigger car that remains RWD.

[Thescout13]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

I think that's a good point - perhaps the M3/4 could remain RWD, but only if the car gets even bigger. I wouldn't want that - aka I could get my mind around AWD/RWD on the fly, like the new M5 versus a much bigger car that remains RWD.

I agree. I think the new M5s customizable AWD is the perfect middle ground for enthusiasts.

[ASAP]

weight has 0 relation to traction...

it has to do with weight distribution and weight over a given axle...

Think about whether a Mclaren 650s has serious traction issues at over 650 hp... and why it wouldn't... car weighs under 3000 lbs. In the case of front engine / rwd cars, awd happens to be the simplest solution... a rwd Z06 with 650 hp and 600 lb ft has less traction issues than a 425 hp M3...

[Thescout13]

Originally Posted by ASAP

weight has 0 relation to traction...

it has to do with weight distribution and weight over a given axle...

Think about whether a Mclaren 650s has serious traction issues at over 650 hp... and why it wouldn't... car weighs under 3000 lbs. In the case of front engine / rwd cars, awd happens to be the simplest solution... a rwd Z06 with 650 hp and 600 lb ft has less traction issues than a 425 hp M3...

Weight has to do with traction. Hence your qualification of weight over axles.

And are you seriously comparing a McLaren tire to the tires that come on M3s? Arent the P1 tires a couple grand each? The 650s is not much different. Not to mention the fact that the engine is literally over the rear axle that needs the traction, which matters more anyway in this example. Come on man, apples to oranges.

When BMW wants make a rear engine M3 and M5 then we can compare them.

We can agree to disagree thats fine.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by Thescout13

Weight has to do with traction. Hence your qualification of weight over axles.

And are you seriously comparing a McLaren tire to the tires that come on M3s? Arent the P1 tires a couple grand each? The 650s is not much different. Not to mention the fact that the engine is literally over the rear axle that needs the traction, which matters more anyway in this example. Come on man, apples to oranges.

When BMW wants make a rear engine M3 and M5 then we can compare them.

We can agree to disagree thats fine.

Again... you skipped my Z06 comment... a 650 hp / 650 lb ft car that weighs ~3400 lbs that has less traction issues than the m3... you are going to argue different class of car / much wider tires... I am going to say obviously and say again the car weighs 3400 lbs... perhaps the issue isn't really weight...

[Thescout13]

Originally Posted by ASAP

Again... you skipped my Z06 comment... a 650 hp / 650 lb ft car that weighs ~3400 lbs that has less traction issues than the m3... you are going to argue different class of car / much wider tires... I am going to say obviously and say again the car weighs 3400 lbs... perhaps the issue isn't really weight...

And you overlooked mine. Z06 also has different tires and a completely different traction management system than the M3. Take off the nannies and the Z06 spins like a whore too. Hell my Camaro spins like nuts. I mean the Chevy track management system even limits power in the first two gears, because weight to power ratio matters.

Weight and tires make a huge difference. If the M3 or Z06 had AWD you bet your ass traction would not be that bad of an issue.

I mean come on, AWD cars are faster off of the line because traction control issues are minimum. Look at the GTR, arguably the best track car out right now.

I never said weight has to be the be all end all, but weight and tires matter, light car or not. That is just physics. For usable power traction on a light car AWD makes sense. In the absence of AWD then it is really really really expensive tires that last what 3k miles? Okay.

Im by no means an AWD fanboy bc I love RWD. But when things make practical sense they make sense.

Listen, you got your opinions, I get that, but you didnt say it may or may not be weight. You literally said that weight makes zero difference that is just not accurate. So we agree other things matter. Let us just leave it at that. We are practically saying the same thing.

[michal12]

Is there an actual word from the factory? They must be planning the M3/4 now.

Currently, little suggests need for an xDrive. But when the one arrives, XE SVR with all wheel drive and probably over 500hp will have been be taking all the love for some time.

[FC]

Originally Posted by michal12

Is there an actual word from the factory? They must be planning the M3/4 now.

Trust me, there are prototypes doing subsystem testing right now. It takes years to design a car. And there is a bunch of testing. I'm sure the design a few options in parallel and they let testing and marketing drive the selection, tweaking and optimization for final implementation.

They probably have a version of the M5 AWD in a next-gen M3/4 mule somewhere right now.

[solstice]

Food for thought. What does a Formula 1 and a top fuel car have in common?

I would guess everyone would prefer the M3 to drop real significant weight to get faster, nimbler and more fun instead of adding AWD. The M5 is in another segment and AWD or not in it make no difference to me.

However if the next M3 will be a hybrid it will most likely be heavier not lighter and it already have one foot in the mid size segment compared to the E46 and earlier generations and in that trend AWD on demand probably make sense to keep up with the competition in Nurnburgring bragging rights and also to keep stop light warriors happy

So unless the next M3 goes old school to a much lighter, high revving smaller car I have no issues with adding M5 type of AWD.