[DFW_M]

Originally Posted by G MONEY

I find it hard to believe you have driven all those cars and still think the BMW is not weak AF. They are not crisp what so ever/ long long throws and just over all mush. Been a huge complaint for Tons of people
For a long ass time. Glad you are the 1 satisfied dude. Lol

I guarantee you I am not THE one dude...
Also, in 40 years of driving, the sample I listed are just the highlights. The bottom line is -- all cars I ever had with the exception of G20 and 2006 120d (my wife's) were manuals and I absolutely have no issues and love the G80 6MT.

[G MONEY]

Originally Posted by DFW_M

I guarantee you I am not THE one dude...
Also, in 40 years of driving, the sample I listed are just the highlights. The bottom line is — all cars I ever had with the exception of G20 and 2006 120d (my wife's) were manuals and I absolutely have no issues and love the G80 6MT.

Glad you are happy bud. Enjoy it

[LuvMyE92]

RTMOP:

Originally Posted by LuvMyE92

I'm picking mine up tomorrow. I'll update this thread (and PM the enablers that helped me) next week.

Originally Posted by FISH22

LuvMyE92 stoked for you, can’t wait to see pictures and hear your thoughts!

No pics.

TLDR; I didn't get it.

I'm in NC, the car was in SC, 3.5 hours away. I got up at the crack of dawn and hit the roads, taking I-40 to I-95 to I-20. All of those highways suck, all but I-20 under construction in multiple places, decaying pavement, horrible traffic. I missed the latter since I left so early on a Saturday. The M4, a fabulous car, has quite a bit of road noise, so I used my in ear monitors (not ear buds) that block a lot of sound, to listen to tunes on the drive. Yes, technically those are illegal since I can't hear sirens, but I like to live life on the edge.

Before I did this, I did a lot of research, reading reviews, PM'ing owners, watching videos. These cars are impossible to find, but I found this lightly used (900 miles) 2023 at a Mercedes dealer in Columbia. I did most of the transaction via email and text, and I specifically asked the girl that I was working through to go sit in the car and smell it, to make sure that it was not a smoker's car and that they had not deodorized it. Some dealers will use that sweet smelling crap to mask odors, and I can't stand it. The wife gets headaches/migraines from that stuff. I just hate it. I've had cars that were deodorized like that, and I could never get rid of the stink. Had to sell the car. This is why I check first.

Long story short: yes, of course, they lied to me and the car smelled.

Since I had wasted my Saturday and 450 miles of travel and I was there anyway, I went ahead and drove the car. It really does drive nicely, the steering, the shifter, clutch, all that stuff that we use when "driving" are just top-notch. Driving-wise, it is a really great car.

There was significant road noise, some of which is masked by active noise cancellation which gives you a weird kinda high pressure thing, since ANC generates sound that is 180 degrees out of phase with the noise. So even though you don't "hear it" it is still there. The ride quality was disappointing - I expected more of a Cadillac ride, like I got in my SS (which has an earlier generation of the Magna ride magnetorheological suspension) and this car did not give it. It's not stiff like an M5, and with the longer wheelbase I expected a better ride than the M4, but it really was not much of an improvement. I know, it's a performance car, yada, yada, yada, but it's also a $100,000 luxury car.

All in all, these are really phenomenal cars, but the M4 sets the bar pretty high. If I didn't have the M4 and were shopping both, and if the Blackwing was priced the same, it would be the winner, hands-down. As it was, I was going to be trading in the M4 plus $24K on top of that, and it just isn't worth it to me.

If I was shopping for a new car, and comparing the M to the BW, it would be a more difficult decision. Of course nothing is that simple any more, with most of these cars selling for over sticker, difficulties getting allocations to order one, etc., so the nod would probably go to the BMW since it is possible to order one in a reasonable amount of time for a reasonable price.

I'm a little bit sad. I had really high hopes for the BW given all of the happy owners' reports, but as a bit of a BMW fanbois, it easy for me to stick with what I know.

[Ir0nEagl3]

I have a g80 m3 6mt on order (production week 42) but something is telling me to get the blackwing

[LuvMyE92]

Originally Posted by Ir0nEagl3

I have a g80 m3 6mt on order (production week 42) but something is telling me to get the blackwing

Despite what I wrote above (2 posts up in this thread) I went ahead and kept at it, and finally found, purchased and received my new CT5V Blackwing properly configured with 3 pedals. Unlike the BMW, there was no sacrifice in engine performance with the correct transmission.

I'm only on day 3 here, but I've got to say, this car is just tremendous. I don't want to beat up on the M car, it is fabulous, but this is more fabulouser. The shifter, the clutch, the steering, the ride, OMG the ride is so much less punishing but yet very controlled.

Sure, it's a GM product, it has some shortcomings, it's not inexpensive, it's difficult to find and purchase, but what a drive! I'm going to post more about it in a few days after I've put more miles under my belt.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by LuvMyE92

Despite what I wrote above (2 posts up in this thread) I went ahead and kept at it, and finally found, purchased and received my new CT5V Blackwing properly configured with 3 pedals. Unlike the BMW, there was no sacrifice in engine performance with the correct transmission.

I'm only on day 3 here, but I've got to say, this car is just tremendous. I don't want to beat up on the M car, it is fabulous, but this is more fabulouser. The shifter, the clutch, the steering, the ride, OMG the ride is so much less punishing but yet very controlled.

Sure, it's a GM product, it has some shortcomings, it's not inexpensive, it's difficult to find and purchase, but what a drive! I'm going to post more about it in a few days after I've put more miles under my belt.

Congrats (again)! What do you think changed between the first car and this one re: ride as you were not impressed and now you are. They have some great ride control shocks so it doesn't suprise me. This is definitely a car I'd look to buy but I moved from my G80 M3 6MT to a G80 M3 xdrive and it's such a fantastic package and what the 6MT should have been.

[FISH22]

Originally Posted by LuvMyE92

Despite what I wrote above (2 posts up in this thread) I went ahead and kept at it, and finally found, purchased and received my new CT5V Blackwing properly configured with 3 pedals. Unlike the BMW, there was no sacrifice in engine performance with the correct transmission.

I'm only on day 3 here, but I've got to say, this car is just tremendous. I don't want to beat up on the M car, it is fabulous, but this is more fabulouser. The shifter, the clutch, the steering, the ride, OMG the ride is so much less punishing but yet very controlled.

Sure, it's a GM product, it has some shortcomings, it's not inexpensive, it's difficult to find and purchase, but what a drive! I'm going to post more about it in a few days after I've put more miles under my belt.

Fantastic news! Incredible machine for sure. Rowing this perfectly built transmission along with the LT4 note is out of this world. Nearly 4k miles in and I still get goosebumps. A WOT pull in this car is like nothing I’ve experienced before.

Pro tip: in “my mode”, have your exhaust set to full sport. Car will remain in this setting, even after restarts. Makes cold starts intoxicating.

[FISH22]

Originally Posted by Ir0nEagl3

I have a g80 m3 6mt on order (production week 42) but something is telling me to get the blackwing

Yeah. Get the Blackwing.

Funny enough, I had an order in on a new manual G80. Pulled out and went for the 5BW. Manual of course.

[LuvMyE92]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

Congrats (again)! What do you think changed between the first car and this one re: ride as you were not impressed and now you are. They have some great ride control shocks so it doesn't suprise me.

The first car that I drove was at a dealer in another state. So, after 3.5 hours in the M4, half deaf and kind of sore, I drove the BW on gawd-awful unfamiliar roads, already pissed off because of the smell (i.e. wasted trip) and really not in a position to compare. The test drive route was in the opposite direction of where I needed to go (home) and the M4 was literally on fumes because I was intending to trade it in, and so why give them any gas? So I wasn't sure that I could replicate the route and still find a gas station before I was stranded. And I was hungry. And pissed-off. So I didn't do a proper comparison.

Now that I have this one, I can drive it on my familiar roads; my commute to and from work goes through two construction zones, cement and asphalt highways, the latter with some really bad expansion joints and repairs, local roads with older, distressed pavement, and I know where every bump, heave, pothole, divot, repair and defect is. The BW just absorbs everything so much better, without the harshness of the BMW, the body control is better with less porpoising (although the M4 is worlds better at that than the M2 was) and this is with the same PS4S tires, with the pressure set higher in the BW (35) than the M4 (32).

GM does a lot of crappy stuff, but their Magna ride suspension is really top notch.

[Brazilian_BAMF]

The problem for me, the BW does not looks more sporty than the normal or V version.

[FISH22]

Originally Posted by Brazilian_BAMF

The problem for me, the BW does not looks more sporty than the normal or V version.

Absolutely not the case, but I know what you’re saying. I recently had my 5BW next to a CT5-V. Massive differences. Bumpers are different, front fenders are chunkier and vented. Wheels, tires, brakes are worlds sportier and more aggressive. But in pictures, I could see how the V and BW look very similar.

I’d say it’s very similar to how an M5 looks next to an M550. Up close, you can clearly see the differences.

From the rear (in person), the ass on the 5BW is incredible. The rear 305 tires help also.

[Ir0nEagl3]

Originally Posted by FISH22

Yeah. Get the Blackwing.

Funny enough, I had an order in on a new manual G80. Pulled out and went for the 5BW. Manual of course.

Thanks for making an already difficult decision even more difficult... I'll let you know how this pans out!

[FISH22]

Originally Posted by Ir0nEagl3

Thanks for making an already difficult decision even more difficult... I'll let you know how this pans out!

It is most definitely a difficult choice to commit to. I’ve never really been a GM fan. M car guy most of my adult life. But the 5BW is THAT GOOD.

M5CS is likely the only car to get me back into a BMW.

[vbb]

I would like to chime in with some comments as a happy G82 6MT owner that has driven at 5BW... in fact Fish22's 5BW.

Fish22 is a longtime friend and car buddy of mine. We've owned similar cars at similar times, bought and traded parts and done a ton of installs together going back to the mid 2000s. When he made the move from his G80 Competition to the 5BW, I was super excited for him. On an install day at his house, he let me drive his 5BW on a nice 15mi test drive through some great backroads, and he told me not to hold back. I didn't.

The exhaust note on the 5BW is the very first thing you notice. There is simply no replacement for a V8. As a previous owner of a C7 Corvette with a Corsa exhaust, that exhaust note is something I miss very much. I love the sound of the 5BW. Absolutely love it.

The next most noticeable thing is the tremec 6MT shifter. It's much better than the unit in my M4. It's more positive and direct, whereas the BMW's shifter is a little more vague. That said, the BMW's shifter is much easier to handle in traffic because of the high engagement point and lightness of the clutch feel and the "soft" feeling of the shifter. When you're driving spiritedly though, you want the tremec.

The suspension on the 5BW is also superior. The car rides like a Cadillac, except when it doesn't. It's magic how something so comfortable can also be so compliant when you push it. I didn't push his car as hard as I would have pushed my own car, but I didn't hold back much and took some corners pretty hard. I got nowhere near the limits of what that suspension can do. You could drive that car 500miles and be comfortable.

I give the interior nod to the M4. I like the layout of everything in the BMW better, especially with the ID7 that comes in my 2022. I like the seats better in my BMW and I like the design better as well. The 5BW isn't bad mind you, but just not what I prefer over the M4.

Ok, the performance... this is why we buy sports and sporty cars, right? There is no question the 5BW is the faster car when compared to my M4 manual. More low end, more top end. That said, given the horsepower and torque figures, the difference wasn't startling like I thought it would be. There really and truly comes a point where fast is fast, and unless you're turning lap times, racing, or trying to go to jail, it's hard to distinguish between two fast cars. To be fair, this is how I ended up with a manual G82 over the Comp... I knew that I wasn't going to be using the extra power with any regularity, yet I enjoyed rowing my own gears and that was something I'd use every time I used the car. 500ish horsepower is just plenty for any street application, full stop.

Looks are subjective so this is a tough one. Fish22 has his car specced exactly as I would have it. It looks menacing. It's wide and imposing. I like the way it looks. That said, I also like the way the G82 looks, especially in black sapphire metallic like mine is. I like the front of the Caddy better and the rear of the BMW better.

In conclusion, the 5BW is a hell of a car. It's a more expensive car than the G82, and it shows. But the G82 is also a great car. I appreciate the generosity and trust that Fish showed me by letting me drive his car. And then I had a blast taking the same backroads home when I got back into mine.

[KevinGS]

VBB, a great comparative review.

I have been a passenger in a CT5 BW, and I concur with you 100%, every word. And I own a RWD M4 Competition. Of course I can't compare the shift quality since I have an auto and since I didn't actually drive the 5BW.

The CT5 BW is a wondrous, sports sedan. I like it, A LOT. And I really like my M4 Comp too. The ride quality coupled with handling ability is truly remarkable. Ode to the MagneRide...

[rick504]

I owned a manual 5BW for a very brief period. The car was fantastic and I thoroughly enjoyed it. It’s definitely much faster than stock G80. The suspension is worlds ahead of the G80 as well. Ultimately though I just prefer my BMW and would rather drive the G80. Also there is not much aftermarket for the 5BW yet and the G80 can be turned into a monster with all the aftermarket support

[rick504]

Here’s both

[LuvMyE92]

I was going to start my own thread on this, but instead I'll just chime in here.

Originally Posted by vbb

The next most noticeable thing is the tremec 6MT shifter. It's much better than the unit in my M4.

The suspension on the 5BW is also superior.

I give the interior nod to the M4.

Excellent write-up, @VBB, I just snipped it a bit.

Originally Posted by KevinGS

The CT5 BW is a wondrous, sports sedan. I like it, A LOT. And I really like my M4 Comp too. The ride quality coupled with handling ability is truly remarkable. Ode to the MagneRide...

So now I've had the CT5V-BW for a few days and a few miles, driving on my familiar roads in town and highway, and I can confidently report that it is awesome and I am very happy with my decision to part with the M4 and buy this thing. Not to bash the M4, I think it's a fabulous car, I owned two of them (both G82 manuals) and I could have kept it for another few years and been very satisfied. I'm just more satisfied now.

I'm now finding little things that aren't annoying so much as just "different". There is no way to read and respond to text messages in the Caddy. The trunk trim is typical GM, kind of loose and floppy, designed for quick assembly. The infotainment system is different, of course, but configuring some things requires you to stop and apply the parking brake so that it knows that you are "parked" before making changes. You cannot change your current album/playlist using media for music unless the car is stopped. The stereo is not as good as the BMW. Yes, I said it, the BMW is better! That's how poor it is in the Caddy. However, if you are so inclined, you can set the rev limit on the launch control, it has a line lock, you can set either or both passenger and driver's mirrors to tilt in reverse if you want, HUD is standard, the instrument panel has different configuration options with more "driver" information displayed than in the BMW, the manual version has no ACC to disable (although it does have a gas guzzler tax now) and the video recorder is standard with a SIM card in the trunk. It can be set to record all of the time, unlike the BMW which only does it when you ask, or after an accident. The optional Performance Data Recorder is absolutely awesome if you track the car. The brakes appear to be just as good as the M car, which says a lot because no one does brakes better than the BMW M division, other than Porsche. Looks are subjective, so I won't get into that. As noted, the interior plastics are mostly sub-par and there is some cheap fit & finish. Many BW owners (myself include) complain about the paint.

The positives outweigh all of this. The shifter, the clutch (although high effort and short travel) and steering are all much better, tighter and more communicative. The ride, OMG, the ride is just fabulous and yet as noted above, is just incredibly well controlled. The seats are softer with more spring in them, which also helps the perceived ride quality. The wife hated the M4 seats (base) but I found them to be very supportive and great for long trips, admittedly on the firm side. I prefer the BMW seats, but the Caddy does have a massage function, standard, if you're into that. Also, the (standard) ventilated seats work much better to cool you off. And the seat fan (if you get a good one) isn't as noisy.

I may have to spend some money to upgrading the stereo. A sub woofer, perhaps some amps... new speakers. We'll see.

As a caveat, let me point out that despite my extensive history with BMW, I've also owned several Corvettes, so many things about the BW are familiar to me, since they do share some technology and engineering.

[Needsdecaf]

For me, a manual was a no go (physical issues with left ankle). So auto to auto, and sedan to sedan, this starts to get to be a tougher decision.

For me, knowing how I'm going to use the car, that big supercharged V8 would be mostly a waste. And around here, on our crappy concrete roads, traction is an issue. AWD is a plus.

And honestly knowing I'd keep the car 5-7 years, I couldn't see myself owning a GM product that long. Sorry, maybe I'm being a snob. But...I just couldn't do it.

But man, they do look fun as hell. Congrats to you both!

[FISH22]

Originally Posted by vbb

I would like to chime in with some comments as a happy G82 6MT owner that has driven at 5BW... in fact Fish22's 5BW.

Fish22 is a longtime friend and car buddy of mine. We've owned similar cars at similar times, bought and traded parts and done a ton of installs together going back to the mid 2000s. When he made the move from his G80 Competition to the 5BW, I was super excited for him. On an install day at his house, he let me drive his 5BW on a nice 15mi test drive through some great backroads, and he told me not to hold back. I didn't.

The exhaust note on the 5BW is the very first thing you notice. There is simply no replacement for a V8. As a previous owner of a C7 Corvette with a Corsa exhaust, that exhaust note is something I miss very much. I love the sound of the 5BW. Absolutely love it.

The next most noticeable thing is the tremec 6MT shifter. It's much better than the unit in my M4. It's more positive and direct, whereas the BMW's shifter is a little more vague. That said, the BMW's shifter is much easier to handle in traffic because of the high engagement point and lightness of the clutch feel and the "soft" feeling of the shifter. When you're driving spiritedly though, you want the tremec.

The suspension on the 5BW is also superior. The car rides like a Cadillac, except when it doesn't. It's magic how something so comfortable can also be so compliant when you push it. I didn't push his car as hard as I would have pushed my own car, but I didn't hold back much and took some corners pretty hard. I got nowhere near the limits of what [...]

Great write-up! Was a blast riding shotgun when you drove. When my wife drives, it feels like a Cadillac…

[FISH22]

Originally Posted by LuvMyE92

I was going to start my own thread on this, but instead I'll just chime in here.



So now I've had the CT5V-BW for a few days and a few miles, driving on my familiar roads in town and highway, and I can confidently report that it is awesome and I am very happy with my decision to part with the M4 and buy this thing. Not to bash the M4, I think it's a fabulous car, I owned two of them (both G82 manuals) and I could have kept it for another few years and been very satisfied. I'm just more satisfied now.

I'm now finding little things that aren't annoying so much as just "different". There is no way to read and respond to text messages in the Caddy. The trunk trim is typical GM, kind of loose and floppy, designed for quick assembly. The infotainment system is different, of course, but configuring some things requires you to stop and apply the parking brake so that it knows that you are "parked" before making changes. You cannot change your current album/playlist using media for music unless the car is stopped. The stereo is not as good as the BMW. Yes, I said it, the BMW is better! That's how poor it is in the Caddy. However, if you are so inclined, you can set the rev limit on the launch control, it has a line lock, you can set either or both passenger and driver's mirrors to tilt in reverse if you want, HUD is standard, the instrument panel has different configuration options with more "driver" information displayed than in the BMW, the manual version has no ACC to disable (although it does have a gas guzzler tax now) and the video recorder is [...]

Love all the reviews put into this thread. Thanks!

I’m an immense fan of this car and I think it needs to really be experienced to understand it’s worth. We won’t see a new car like this ever again once production stops.

[vbb]

Originally Posted by FISH22

Great write-up! Was a blast riding shotgun when you drove. When my wife drives, it feels like a Cadillac…

Ha! Anytime you want to experience your car's performance without having to drive it, I'd be happy to assist! It always feels twice as fast when you are a passenger.