[MT6]

One angle is the league BMW S58 playing in. Punching heavy in stock and engine tuners dream

[THEROK]

Originally Posted by SwankPeRFection

Have you seen the changes they made to the S58 oil pan design to deal with track use? It’s a non-issue, if that’s what you were trying to get at. It’s funny that they took the one car that’s highest and tallest off the ground and decided it was acceptable to put it on different tires from the other two… two negatives out the gate, just to be safe. 🙄

Put slicks on it with better brakes and it’ll be sketchy. It’s also sitting nice and high with that wet sump given its German commuter car roots.

S58 is a nice, fi street engine. In this class of vehicle next to the gt3/z06, the CSL is outclassed, yet the price tag makes it an M for Marketing CSL.

[LazyM5]

Originally Posted by jmack123

The new M3 is nicer looking than the new C8? Might be time for a trip to the optometrist.

[jmxtrem]

Originally Posted by Hit_Apex

Is this the 7 month old video where they couldn't source proper tires for the CSL?

yes

[Hit_Apex]

Originally Posted by THEROK

Put slicks on it with better brakes and it’ll be sketchy. It’s also sitting nice and high with that wet sump given its German commuter car roots.

You must have driven this car with better brakes and slicks to make the statement. The OE CCB brakes are absolutely fine for the track, especially a glory qualifying lap. No one is suggesting what the CSL would do on slicks or a lower CG. It’s about comparing cars in the trim they were factory tuned for. That’s it. I have hundreds of laps on this test track, and dozens of laps in the CSL on R comps. Again, I don’t think the order would change - but it would make the test and the depth of analysis much more meaningful.

I think we all agree that M rushed development to align with their 50 year anniversary as there are clues in the technical documentation that suggest they aspired for more engineering. But for this test, it is a shame they couldn’t get the correct OEM specd rubber to better understand what it does well and not so well versus the other very different (and superior) platforms.

[Ragged Edge]

Originally Posted by jmack123

The new M3 is nicer looking than the new C8? Might be time for a trip to the optometrist.

Looks are subjective. To me, and most of the rest of the world, the corvette looks like it was drawn with a crayon by a 5 year old on a napkin. But don’t just believe me, look at any car show outside of ‘merica.

[jmack123]

Originally Posted by Ragged Edge

Looks are subjective. To me, and most of the rest of the world, the corvette looks like it was drawn by a 5 year old on a napkin. But don’t just believe me, look at any car show outside of ‘merica.

Most of the rest of the world? You running a survey company? How do you quantify “most of the rest of the world” in a reliable way?

I’m extremely doutbful that the majority of people anywhere would prefer the design of the M3 over the C8, particularly if they didn’t know what the brand associated with each was beforehand.

The front on the M3 certainly looks more 5-year-old-inspired than the front of the C8, and that’s pretty undebatable given one of the hallmarks of juvenile design is a lack of symmetry and proportion.

[F80DK]

Originally Posted by SexyRoger

Porsche hands down every time. the best. Corvette sounds nice but it is so damn ugly, and lacks any symmetry. Even the new M3 is nicer looking. That said, why is BMW sharing brakes with a land rover?

The new M3 is nicer looking than the new C8? Might be time for a trip to the optometrist.

He may have a point: I think the proportions of the C8 aren’t that great. Especially from the side.
The C7 is beautiful. I adore the Grand Sport, and it was highly applauded by german Sport Auto. The 466 hp complemented the suspension well.

[SolarTrans]

Originally Posted by nicksm3

Great cars, but corvette ruined the seating position on this new platform. I’m 6’1 and can’t even wear a helmet in the car with proper seating position. Atleast with the Germans they’ve been doing it correct for eons. Almost had it Chevy, almost.

agree. I'm a few inches taller and can't fit in a C8 even without a helmet.
can't actually fit in any porsches with a helmet either
most M cars with helmet and no sunroof work though.

[SolarTrans]

Originally Posted by SwankPeRFection

It’s hard to understand why so many people bought a CSL and then turned around and traded them in. I have a feeling many wanted some kind of night and day difference between a Comp and the CSL for the money and what they got wasn’t what they expected. I think those same people bought it on the hype alone as opposed to real passion for the car. In my opinion, the base M4, Comp and CSL were kinda like the old school Integras where the Comp was the GSR and the CSL was the Type R. The upgrades to chassis rigidity, engine, etc. were there and useful, but they weren’t night and day differences. Given the M3 CS is also cheaper than the CSL on paper and yet still provides the same creature comforts of the Comp, BMW might have felt they could do the same with the M4 CS. I believe the M3 CS sold pretty well and is being kept by those buyers more so than the CSL was.

CSL power is nearly unusable in most cases on the street, unless you live in the right climate. warm C2Rs alongside warm+dry pavement are necessary

even in those situations, it is a difficult car to drive. the comp/CS tuned S58's massive punch of torque when boost comes in really favors AWD cars for street use

think it could have been cool if they made it a GTS with proper aero and even more track-focus. as it stands, it's too rough for daily use, and has insufficient aero and tire width to take optimal advantage of the power on track.

[yeetyeet]

Im happy plenty of people share the same sentiment. I mean in this setting the GT3RS is going to do well, and for the price tag it better. But, to be fair I was instantly turned off by the video when they couldn’t run the same tire across all three, and then double downed by trying to convince the consumer of the video it potentially was good for the M4 to have a less sporty tire. Regardless, I stayed for the production value of the video.

[Hit_Apex]

Originally Posted by yeetyeet

Im happy plenty of people share the same sentiment. I mean in this setting the GT3RS is going to do well, and for the price tag it better. But, to be fair I was instantly turned off by the video when they couldn’t run the same tire across all three, and then double downed by trying to convince the consumer of the video it potentially was good for the M4 to have a less sporty tire. Regardless, I stayed for the production value of the video.

The cold angle was lame. Takes longer to warm tires but once heated there is no difference temperature (i think it was only low 40s that day) makes to hot laps. Silly attempt to justify the miss.

Can't believe I'm still belly-aching over this. Hate you OP for unnecessary resurrection.

[SwankPeRFection]

Hell, they should have just added the eRay to the list and tested that. Considering it beats the Z06 in the 1/4, the instant torque and AWD would have helped gap that even easier through the turns. It’s built on the wider Z06 chassis and the track had short runs with turns, it probably would have beaten the Z06 and would have been interesting to see how much closer it would have been to the Porsche. The video is useless anyway with the tire discrepancy, so this would have followed suit in the same fashion. Lol

[HudsonHornett]

Originally Posted by SolarTrans

CSL power is nearly unusable in most cases on the street, unless you live in the right climate. warm C2Rs alongside warm+dry pavement are necessary

even in those situations, it is a difficult car to drive. the comp/CS tuned S58's massive punch of torque when boost comes in really favors AWD cars for street use

think it could have been cool if they made it a GTS with proper aero and even more track-focus. as it stands, it's too rough for daily use, and has insufficient aero and tire width to take optimal advantage of the power on track.

Don’t agree with much of this at all. I have a CSL and I use it all of the time. It’s not difficult to drive at all unless you’re an absolute idiot. It drives brilliantly and is more than comfortable enough for regular street use. With Cup tyres it’s slidey in cold or wet weather, I’ll give you that but it has way more feel than a standard M4 and is much better to drive with a way better sense of occasion. It’s a fun car and when the back does let go it’s predictable and enjoyable.

[SwankPeRFection]

Originally Posted by HudsonHornett

Don’t agree with much of this at all. I have a CSL and I use it all of the time. It’s not difficult to drive at all unless you’re an absolute idiot. It drives brilliantly and is more than comfortable enough for regular street use. With Cup tyres it’s slidey in cold or wet weather, I’ll give you that but it has way more feel than a standard M4 and is much better to drive with a way better sense of occasion. It’s a fun car and when the back does let go it’s predictable and enjoyable.

Which brings up my point of, why I don’t know why people don’t change the tires out on them and have a great car with improved wet tractions and no bs problems from the track tires. I almost feel like some people bought the car thinking it was going to be their Porsche replacement or some shit and then were disappointed by it in some way and traded them back in or sold them outright.

[HudsonHornett]

Originally Posted by SwankPeRFection

Which brings up my point of, why I don’t know why people don’t change the tires out on them and have a great car with improved wet tractions and no bs problems from the track tires. I almost feel like some people bought the car thinking it was going to be their Porsche replacement or some shit and then were disappointed by it in some way and traded them back in or sold them outright.

Possibly. I think some of the UK road tests at the time slated the car completely unfairly and there are too many sheep that can’t think for themselves, so rely on these reviews. I also have a GR86 that the Uk press almost to a man absolutely love and it is an absolutely brilliant car to drive. I love it! As a car to just relish on a nice morning drive, it’s fantastic! But it’s not a patch on the CSL and rightly so, the CSL is 4x the price of the GR86! If I had to get rid of one of my cars, the GR86 would go all day every day ahead of the CSL. It’s not even a contest. The CSL is just much more exciting to drive in every way!

I love a manual transmission and the CSL doesn’t have that but the handling is just sublime. Even with Cup 2 R tyres, I’m happy to drive it in crappy conditions, the chassis always lets you know what’s going on and how much grip you have, I just drive to the conditions.

[SolarTrans]

Originally Posted by HudsonHornett

Don’t agree with much of this at all. I have a CSL and I use it all of the time. It’s not difficult to drive at all unless you’re an absolute idiot. It drives brilliantly and is more than comfortable enough for regular street use. With Cup tyres it’s slidey in cold or wet weather, I’ll give you that but it has way more feel than a standard M4 and is much better to drive with a way better sense of occasion. It’s a fun car and when the back does let go it’s predictable and enjoyable.

Driving CSL and Xdrive back to back, the CSL is clearly more of a sense of occasion, I agree. And it's not difficult to drive, but difficult to use all of the power. You can plant your foot anytime, anywhere in an xdrive and blast off. The CSL requires more care than that, particularly at low speeds and/or in the wet or cold.

Nothing wrong with that, but I find that by the time you are going fast enough to really put 100% of the power down, you're very quickly hitting dangerous speeds for the street—whereas Xdrive lets you get those huge Gs at low speeds

Different cars for different purposes

[HudsonHornett]

Originally Posted by SolarTrans

Driving CSL and Xdrive back to back, the CSL is clearly more of a sense of occasion, I agree. And it's not difficult to drive, but difficult to use all of the power. You can plant your foot anytime, anywhere in an xdrive and blast off. The CSL requires more care than that, particularly at low speeds and/or in the wet or cold.

Nothing wrong with that, but I find that by the time you are going fast enough to really put 100% of the power down, you're very quickly hitting dangerous speeds for the street—whereas Xdrive lets you get those huge Gs at low speeds

Different cars for different purposes

Ah I see where you’re coming from. I’d agree that from a standing start you can’t get every ounce of power from the CSL to the tarmac. And that in a CS or Comp with x-drive, you can BUT that is a pretty one dimensional issue. There’s so much more to the CSL than pace (although that is exciting) and I kind of love the fact that you have to think about how you deploy all of that power. The accelerator pedal is just so well-tuned to manage it as well, beast of a car. On track the performance will be absolutely next level. Desperate to get mine on track (hopefully later this year).

[SigmaShift]

Controversial take. I do not like the M4 CSL, and I believe the upcoming M4 CS will be the better car.

[SolarTrans]

Originally Posted by HudsonHornett

Ah I see where you’re coming from. I’d agree that from a standing start you can’t get every ounce of power from the CSL to the tarmac. And that in a CS or Comp with x-drive, you can BUT that is a pretty one dimensional issue. There’s so much more to the CSL than pace (although that is exciting) and I kind of love the fact that you have to think about how you deploy all of that power. The accelerator pedal is just so well-tuned to manage it as well, beast of a car. On track the performance will be absolutely next level. Desperate to get mine on track (hopefully later this year).

Absolutely, it's meant to be enjoyed from a roll, but there is added engagement in managing the power.

Living in the PNW, we have rain+cold for so much of the year that it's not the ideal car for our climate, ahah

[SolarTrans]

Originally Posted by SigmaShift

Controversial take. I do not like the M4 CSL, and I believe the upcoming M4 CS will be the better car.

Think you're right. Would love something more hardcore than the M3 CS, like if they kept the rear seat delete on the M4 CS.

[HudsonHornett]

Originally Posted by SigmaShift

Controversial take. I do not like the M4 CSL, and I believe the upcoming M4 CS will be the better car.

Have you driven the M4CSL? The M4 CS will be better at carrying 4 people and faster in the wet and from a standing start but nothing else IMHO.