05-09-2024, 07:51 AM | #45 |
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I don't own one but I've driven one hard and smoothly around local roads... it's an incredibly capable car (especially when pushed) but somewhat boring at slower speeds... it almost seems that bmw made it too capable (if that even makes sense) that it resulted in somewhat of a numb experience. Watch Matt Farah's review on the G80x awd vs the F80... he says similar things.
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05-09-2024, 08:43 AM | #46 |
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Going from an automatic to a manual like going from a electronic calculator to a slide-rule.
Nostalgia and connected experience with the slide-rule but the calculator will outperform it everyday when it comes to getting the job done. A friend of mine had a hill climb car (Sunbeam Tiger). Everyone was running standard shifts. He went from a stick to an automatic and started cleaning up. The stick was more more connected to drive but the automatic took the money home. Last edited by turbojg; 05-09-2024 at 08:49 AM.. |
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05-09-2024, 09:05 AM | #47 | |
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05-09-2024, 09:06 AM | #48 | |
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05-09-2024, 09:08 AM | #49 | |
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05-09-2024, 09:51 AM | #51 | |
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Problem with journalists like Farah is that they sample cars for short time periods and also live in the land of canyon carving. Ask Matt what he would pick if he only had one car to both commute in the canyons AND deal with traffic. |
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05-09-2024, 09:58 AM | #52 | |
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The comments about the car being too capable, well that’s every performance car now. I remember my first time driving even a 992 Turbo S and left unimpressed with how mundane the experience was when you factor in how it felt when you weren’t going full throttle. Same to be said of most cars. They lack excitement when you’re not full engaged and pushing them. I actually find M cars do a good job of being fun at most speeds. The G80 Xdrive has such short gears paired with the ZF8 and CS software it is incredibly fun to accelerate and drive on highway ramps or back roads. It’s also incredibly capable on track which we all know too. |
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05-09-2024, 10:05 AM | #53 | |
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i think the longer f80 chassis hits the golden spot of being involving, fun and capable at all speeds... the g80 is FAR more capable but its a level I couldn't see myself having fun w everyday... so when I drove it hard, it felt far more like a super capable luxo gt... oh and that weight is immediately noticeable
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05-09-2024, 11:52 AM | #54 | |
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I liked the f80 comp manual. But I love the g80 manual. I’m not sure what it is - maybe the fit and finish or the exceptional bucket seats or the improved torque curve traction. The weight of the g80 manual with the carbon roof and seats is fine by me. I drive it hard in the mountains and haven’t felt the weight to be an issue. The comp x on the other hand was a problem. Yes, the f80 was more nimble. But the g80 manual’s weight is not a deal breaker for me. |
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05-09-2024, 12:37 PM | #55 | |
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In the Nissan the DCT was sort of the worst of both worlds, as smooth as a manual and as fun as an automatic. But I couldn't deny the car was faster for it. Fast forward 15 years and the G80 M3 xDrive is basically a super refined 4-door GTR. Similar size weight and performance, with 3-Series practicality and luxury the Nissan will never know. People that test drive the M3 looking for an e46 will be disappointed because it's a huge car, easily the size of an e39 M5 which was an amazing manual (with crappy reticular ball steering, a foible of an otherwise perfect car)...but the smooth torquey V8 fit that manual. I haven't driven a G80 6mt, but perhaps it has some of that e39 `tude which would be nice. on that point the car that got me back into modern BMW as the M340i RWD which is a spec per spec identical car to the e39 M5 (same weight, width, height, length, track, interior room, seating position, and power on paper....thought the M340 is MUCH quicker off the line). That car introed me to modern turbo i6 BMW and I have to say I REALLY fell in love with that automatic B58. But overall despite being on paper the same car as an e39 M5, you could tell it was tuned a little dull, less lively, etc. So then I made the mistake of researching suspension differences between the G20 and G80 and a week later I have an xDrive Comp. This is the best Automatic car I've ever owned, and I dare say I would take it over a DCT. As stated above shifting in manual mode the car really comes alive and feels super playful, and I really love the differences between the 3 shift modes. I wouldn't mind another manual, but To be honest I would prefer something Naturally aspirated....which is no longer an option. For lack of that, I do admire the G87 6MT, but feel sort of am intrigued with what the base 230 turbo 4 would be like with a G87 Chassis tune and a manual trans. Obviously thy don't make that car, but I'm a slow car fast sort of guy when I'm getting something for smiles. Right now my fantasy garage is the M3 xD (which I have) and the Z4 M40i 6Mt Which I am sorely tempted by. I'd probably like the car more with a 100bs of turbo charging removed from the nose and an old fashioned naturally aspirated and tuned S54 under the hood.....damn I miss those old Z3M cars ;-) |
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05-09-2024, 12:56 PM | #56 | |
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Z4 handschalter (as mentioned) $$ - this would be my pick. Used Audi v10 gated manual $$$$ 991.1 $$ 718 GTS4.0 $$$ New Cadi BW $$$ (supercharged) 992 GT3 $$$$ Lotus emira $$$ (supercharged) |
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05-09-2024, 01:39 PM | #57 | |
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I've owned and tracked and dailed manual, DCT and now the ZF8. Here is my take: If daily driving is the primary source of driving enjoyment an owner gets out of the car and they enjoy a manual, then I can see how they can get bored. When on a public road, you aren't worried about late/trail braking, apexing, grip management, throttle steering, counter-steering and driving lines etc like you would on a track or autocross. The primary source of engagement is the gas pedal, the shifter, and relatively minor steering inputs. Street driving is an exponentially less engaging experience overall, so the manual plays a much larger role compared to the on the track where it's one of dozens of factors of engagement. That doesn't mean it's not rewarding and enjoyable on the track, quite the contrary. It's just that you have many other things to draw engagement from. As far as RWD vs X-Drive, you initiate oversteer just as easily in X-Drive with traction control completely off or in MDM. It's recovery were X-Drive has the edge. It's still primarily a RWD vehicle full time until you need front traction and you can still throttle steer just like in a RWD vehicle. Throttle dynamics when the rear is loose are not flipped like in a symmetrical AWD or FWD vehicle.
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05-09-2024, 01:48 PM | #58 | |
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In other words, 35mph in traffic is very different than taking a downhill hairpin at 35mph with the rear end trying to get in front of you.
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05-09-2024, 01:55 PM | #59 | |
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The auto frees up a lot of mental/physical load when driving which is awesome for the track when there are other things you want to feel/pay attention to. However, on the street, there is nothing to fill that void (unless you break the law) so it gets boring pretty fast. I came from an M340i to the G80 manual and I was so excited to go back to a manual because the M340i just felt like any other automatic during normal commutes. I am also considering keeping the G80 long term because, if you ever feel like the manual is "too slow", it is guaranteed that there will always be a faster car in the future but there is no guarantee there will be a manual in the future. There will be a day where a Kia EV will be faster than any ICE manual car. |
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05-09-2024, 03:23 PM | #60 | |
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The recent track test of the Ionic 5 N on Throttle House certainly makes it clear that there are MT cars that will beat the N on TH's chosen track, at least. I would hope that other G8x MT drivers knew this when they bought their car, I certainly did. |
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05-17-2024, 10:45 PM | #61 |
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Tough choice. If I didn’t have another car that is auto, I’d get the comp. xd. If BMW made an awd manual, I’d get that. Give me that combo in a wagon, no contest.
Alas, I have a boring auto dd, and the g80 is my car therapy car with a stick. Love driving manuals! Shifting with precision day in, day out is something I aspire to continue pursuing/achieving until I can no longer. I’ve been driving manuals for years, so, that’s what I chose for my fun car. |
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05-18-2024, 08:32 AM | #62 | |
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05-18-2024, 08:05 PM | #64 | |
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Odd you should mention it. One of my neighbors traded his vert mustang for a z4. Looks slick! As for the g80 debate, if I could have an auto g80 xd and an m4 with a stick in the stable, or a wagon with one, that’d be it. Need a wagon for utility…nor am I super wealthy either. Haha. |
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05-19-2024, 07:04 AM | #65 |
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