[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by MadBimmeRad

Google it

LOL, no chief, that's not how it works.

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by jmack123

You say that there was 1/8th the population when the Model T came out and at that time they were producing 50 million a year. Obviously if there was a much smaller population of people, they wouldn’t be producing at a rate that they are now. Your two statements were in discordance with each other.

And again, the reason they are producing so many Teslas now, is due to long established consumer demand for motor vehicles, unlike when the MT first arrived. EVs are much less of a paradigm shift than the shift from horse and buggy to ICE.

If you read my comment again, you'll realise you are saying the exact opposite of what I said which was .... And they WEREN'T producing 50 million .....

There's a lot more to the EV story that you're allowed, or willing, to consider

But I won't stretch our friendship trying to argue those points with you

Enjoy your EV

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

LOL, no chief, that's not how it works.

Fair enough, get your neighbour to do it for you 😉

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by MadBimmeRad

Fair enough, get your neighbour to do it for you 😉

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

C'mon

I'm going to all this effort to make you laugh and what do I get in return

.....


What was the original question please?

[brava09]

Originally Posted by jmack123

How niche was the Model T when it first came out? Stay in school kids. Seems we need more history lessons.

Model T was never a niche model . It was in fact the first mass produced car. How many other cars were in existence when Model T showed up? Very few, which is not the case today with the EV.

Rather than history lessons, perhaps more logic lessons?

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by MadBimmeRad

C'mon

I'm going to all this effort to make you laugh and what do I get in return

.....


What was the original question please?

Meh, I forget.

My G80 will be here before thanksgiving and for that I am happy. I will enjoy it for many years while my kids go to college. Fugly grille and all.

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

Meh, I forget.

My G80 will be here before thanksgiving and for that I am happy. I will enjoy it for many years while my kids go to college. Fugly grille and all.

Now you're talking my language

Here's proof

He already finished University

On the way to the dealer he asked "That car is so ugly, why are you buying one?"

On the way back he said "I still think it's ugly but I love it"

And so the torch is passed on to the next gen

[JJacksonIII]

I think the main issue with EVs is that they almost totally take away one of our senses while driving. Hearing. We used to listen for little squeaks and knocks, or exhause notes that suddenly sounded too loud or gravelly. And of course we loved listening to the engine whine when we got the revs up. Who doesn't appreciate the sound of an exotic car flying down the road? It feels like they are sucking the soul out of the car when they silence it. And I think when we're driving these EVs our subconcious is telling us something is wrong because we're only hearing tire/road noise. But, the cars perform well and will continue to get better and better. I am sure a quad engine all electric M3 is going to be a beast on the track. BMW wouldn't subject us to an all electric M3 unless they thought they could improve track times/performance. It's just going to take A LOT of getting used to for us old-timers. Eventually, the younger generation won't even know what they're missing. They'll be complaining to their kids that there are no cars that can be driven anymore because they are all self-driving.

[FC05]

I was thinking the next gen M3 will have a hybrid S58 inline six powertran, but if they’ve decided to launch a full EV M3 it’s likely there won’t be ICE M3 at all.
Maybe they are keeping the last ICE powered M car for M2 or will be other sports cars I guess.

[harperium]

Originally Posted by JJacksonIII

I am sure a quad engine all electric M3 is going to be a beast on the track.

Where exactly are you going to charge it after a hot lap? Most tracks don't have any charging capacity, much less a dozen DC fast chargers that will be needed. Because you will not want to start a new lap with 70% battery, then hit the 50% battery level and have your power capped.

The whole point of the M3 is to enjoy driving. In Chicago, we have no good driving roads - it takes 2 to 3 hours to drive to some decent hills & curves, and there are zero chargers out there. Driving an M3 in the city means cuttin' up in traffic, over and over unless you venture out a couple hundo miles.

The EV M3 just doesn't make any sense to me. It's not an engineering decision BMW arrived at because it's awesome. It's a decision being forced upon manufacturers that is mostly terrible in every aspect.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by JJacksonIII

I think the main issue with EVs is that they almost totally take away one of our senses while driving. Hearing. We used to listen for little squeaks and knocks, or exhause notes that suddenly sounded too loud or gravelly. And of course we loved listening to the engine whine when we got the revs up. Who doesn't appreciate the sound of an exotic car flying down the road? It feels like they are sucking the soul out of the car when they silence it. And I think when we're driving these EVs our subconcious is telling us something is wrong because we're only hearing tire/road noise.

Meh, the lack of noise definitely limits the emotion factor. But our subconscious telling us something is wrong? I never got / get that at all. You still hear plenty of things. Tire noise. Wind noise. There is a sensation of speed, your senses are not disconnected from what you're seeing. It's just not as visceral or emotional. But it's not disconcerting or disorienting. At least at normal speeds.

The one thing that is tough is on track. When you get close to the limit, THAT is when you miss the drivetrain cues and it's easy to arrive at a corner too fast. Huyndai is actually the first to figure this out and do something about it. Their Ioniq 5 N is equipped with a host of technologies to more realisticaly simulate an ICE car:

It's got a full synthesized engine note that sounds like their 4 cylinder from the Elantra N, and paddle shifters for simulated shifts which literally interrupt the torque delivery of the motors to give you the same feeling as when you shift. And watch the video to check out all the other cool crap they are doing.

Is it gimmicky? Yeah. I'm a Gen X'er so I grew up on Atari, Nintendo and Sega. I've got feet in both the traditional and the modern. So while it's totally gimmicky, I think it's pretty freaking cool. Would I buy this as a track car? Never. Would it make a fun as hell daily? I think so!

Oh, and if you think this is all BS, guess who was responsible for Huyndai N and who's last project this was....Albert Biermann. Yes, THAT Albert Biermann, the head of M from 2008 to 2015. So he knows what's what.

[JJacksonIII]

Originally Posted by harperium

Where exactly are you going to charge it after a hot lap? Most tracks don't have any charging capacity, much less a dozen DC fast chargers that will be needed. Because you will not want to start a new lap with 70% battery, then hit the 50% battery level and have your power capped.

The whole point of the M3 is to enjoy driving. In Chicago, we have no good driving roads - it takes 2 to 3 hours to drive to some decent hills & curves, and there are zero chargers out there. Driving an M3 in the city means cuttin' up in traffic, over and over unless you venture out a couple hundo miles.

The EV M3 just doesn't make any sense to me. It's not an engineering decision BMW arrived at because it's awesome. It's a decision being forced upon manufacturers that is mostly terrible in every aspect.

Maybe the tracks will rent out extra long extension cords and you can just keep it plugged in while you go around the track

[Alpine300zhp]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

Meh, I forget.

My G80 will be here before thanksgiving and for that I am happy. I will enjoy it for many years while my kids go to college. Fugly grille and all.

Funny you mention that. After the plethora of M’s that I have owned, the G80/82 is one of my favorite platforms. If it had the M8 front end, it would probably be my favorite (call me nuts but my E92 with the V8 is still my favorite). After 2 years and 40k miles in this car, I still hate the front. Oh well, the rest of the car makes up for it…..almost.

[PfizerP]

So is this really it? The G80 is the last ICE M3?

[Saandiaago]

Still enjoying my S65 at the track. It’s a fantastic engine. Most M car owners don’t take their car to the track. They want the look, the attention, and the quick sprint to the next red light. A quad motor EV M car will deliver that. BMW will follow suit like every other major car manufacturer as it is a business after all. Hopefully the BMW demographic, like the Porsche demographic, will still have enough clout to allow the BMW M division to realize that there is a business case to be made for continued future offerings with ICE M cars mated to manual and DCT transmissions. If not, the true enthusiasts will need to be on the look out for used cars or willing to pay the P car premiums.

[harperium]

Originally Posted by PfizerP

So is this really it? The G80 is the last ICE M3?

we don’t know yet.

[NoSuchSol]

I wish they would have pushed more hybrid in standard vehicles. Have a Pacifica Hybrid for my family and we fill up 4 times a year for regular driving. If they could get the PHEV up to a 110-120 mile range on the battery that would be a great great city car.

We don't have the infrastructure (energy production) to take care of an EV only state. California tells you not to charge your car during peak hours b/c the system can't handle it yet they're pushing for EV by 2030(2025?). They refuse to look into making a robust grid with either fossil fuels or alternatives that can actually provide enough power. Wind and Solar just aren't there yet.

[PfizerP]

Originally Posted by harperium

we don’t know yet.

I wish they would make it more clear; I wouldn't mind a hybrid in the next gen. I had planned to get an M440i by next summer, but if this is really the end of the line for the ICE M3/M4, I think I will have to get the full M instead.

[PfizerP]

Originally Posted by NoSuchSol

I wish they would have pushed more hybrid in standard vehicles. Have a Pacifica Hybrid for my family and we fill up 4 times a year for regular driving. If they could get the PHEV up to a 110-120 mile range on the battery that would be a great great city car.

We don't have the infrastructure (energy production) to take care of an EV only state. California tells you not to charge your car during peak hours b/c the system can't handle it yet they're pushing for EV by 2030(2025?). They refuse to look into making a robust grid with either fossil fuels or alternatives that can actually provide enough power. Wind and Solar just aren't there yet.

My Dad is looking into getting a 330e for his daily commute; he loves his current F30 330i sport, but its getting a little too long in the tooth.

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by FC05

I was thinking the next gen M3 will have a hybrid S58 inline six powertran, but if they’ve decided to launch a full EV M3 it’s likely there won’t be ICE M3 at all.
Maybe they are keeping the last ICE powered M car for M2 or will be other sports cars I guess.

The next generation M2 is already confirmed to be fully electric just as the next gen 718 twins will be fully electric

[Quadruple VANOS]

A 4400 lb M3 without a transmission sounds like a death nail for the M3 brand.