[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by BimmerFix

Don't be mad. Newer and better in everything, not just automobiles. And I have an F82 , lmao nice try.

Yeah... your response doesn't even make sense

[BimmerFix]

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

Yeah... your response doesn't even make sense

What are you even trying to say ? Serious question I'm hella confused.

Blocked. Moving on

[scoale]

Originally Posted by jkap27

Also the taycan probaby weighs about the same as an african forest elephant and drives like a 911 apparently. full disclosure i had to google what the lightest elephant is haha

I had the opportunity to drive the Taycan a few weeks back....WoW

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Exactly. Since the base G2X is 25% stiffer than the base F3X, the fact that the G8X is "only" 15% stiffer than the F8X means there is "less effective" stiffening over the base chassis.

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I keep seeing this point being repeated over and over when it has already been debunked. The F8X has in fact more/better chassis stiffening than the G8X has.

A heavier chassis to start with and less investment in weight reduction when turning it into an M are the reasons for the G8X weight increase.

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Exactly. Since the base G2X is 25% stiffer than the base F3X, the fact that the G8X is "only" 15% stiffer than the F8X means there is "less effective" stiffening over the base chassis.

I think more important than looking blindly at percentage increase in overall chassis stiffness over the F8x, is how and what they have done with the G8x in this regard.

From earlier info and their video on the subject it looks like they have done a far better/more efficient job at increasing the stiffness of the suspension pick up points/stiffness of the entire suspension structure.

So perhaps less overall increase in total chassis stiffness, but better/more efficient increase in suspension structure stiffness.

The drive reviews also seem to confirm a quite a lot better chassis than the F8x.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Boss330

I think more important than looking blindly at percentage increase in overall chassis stiffness over the F8x, is how and what they have done with the G8x in this regard.

From earlier info and their video on the subject it looks like they have done a far better/more efficient job at increasing the stiffness of the suspension pick up points/stiffness of the entire suspension structure.

So perhaps less overall increase in total chassis stiffness, but better/more efficient increase in suspension structure stiffness.

The drive reviews also seem to confirm a quite a lot better chassis than the F8x.

I am not only looking at the numbers blindly, as I posted in that thread, I did look at it and I do not see it more chassis bracing on the G8X. The F8X also had quite extensive stiffening structures. We do not see all without stripping some components, but the main difference I observed between anchor points is that the F8X has an upper brace between the strut tower and the A-pillar that the G8X does not seem to have, which could explain why they added a lower brace between the front subframe and the side frame rail on the G8X.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by solstice

Then at least the G8X and the TT has something in common that very little negative is written about it of people who has actually seen and driven it.

Bimmerpost is the best forum once the hate calms down a year or so into a new model and it’s mostly owners and aspiring owners left. Actually the M5 section always have much more pleasant tone to it I noticed. More mature and/or busy folks I guess.

You must be doing selective reading, because I’ve read a fair bit of criticism about the G8X, and they are exactly about the points that are important to me. Again, not saying it is a bad car, it will be a great one for many and likely remain the best offering in its segment.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by BimmerFix

A great car from any perspective ..

It's the new M3/M4 deal with it .

Your posts are comical in this thread. Including the chassis stiffening bit

We get it .. you have an F82. & Your a supposed track god. But no need to defend it ad nauseam in G8X threads. It's getting tiresome

I am not here to defend the F8X. My cars are commodities that I keep for a few years to serve my daily use and my track hobby. I’ve owned the last 3 generations of M3/4 over the last 20 years, buying the new one when it is released. I do not have any particular attachment. I am here for the technical discussions.

And yes, I am dealing with it, I am buying something else.

I don’t believe I’ve implied I am a “track god” anywhere because I am not, but I am a longtime track hobbyist, so yes it is important part of my life.

No need for personal attacks...

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I am not here to defend the F8X. My cars are commodities that I keep for a few years to serve my daily use and my track hobby. I've owned the last 3 generations of M3/4 over the last 20 years, buying the new one when it is released. I do not have any particular attachment. I am here for the technical discussions.

And yes, I am dealing with it, I am buying something else.

I don't believe I've implied I am a "track god" anywhere because I am not, but I am a longtime track hobbyist, so yes it is important part of my life.

I thought the singling you out as an anti G8x'er was quite amusing. I don't see any bias in your posts, just fairly factual analysis.

I guess the truth hurts some types.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by M3_WC

Yes, the E9x and F8x were similar. BMW quoted F80 dry weights in early advertisements.

Lightest F8x weighed on forums was a no option manual F80 that weighed 3,450 lbs with 3 gallons of fuel.

BMW marketing was also at play at the F8X launch. They did not show a dry weight, but they did stretch the DIN/EU regulation to the max to claim a weight that no F8X M3/4 on the road will ever have. I was quite vocal about it at the time.

However, my 2015 DCT M4 was >100lb lighter than my 2008 DCT M3. My current DCT M4cs is within a few lb of my 2002 6MT M3 (with sunroof). Quite impressive IMO.

And truth be told, the G8X is bigger than the E39 M5, has a lot more tech and luxury/comfort items and still manages to be lighter than it. Quite a feat.

[VIERsr]

I wonder how much better someone's life would be knowing that his car weighs 100 lbs less.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I am not only looking at the numbers blindly, as I posted in that thread, I did look at it and I do not see it more chassis bracing on the G8X. The F8X also had quite extensive stiffening structures. We do not see all without stripping some components, but the main difference I observed between anchor points is that the F8X has an upper brace between the strut tower and the A-pillar that the G8X does not seem to have, which could explain why they added a lower brace between the front subframe and the side frame rail on the G8X.

The G8x has the additional dome-dome strut that the F8x don't have as well as the underbody shear plate that connects the front crossmember shear plate with the body structure as seen in the video in my previous post.

Also the video clearly both shows and explains that there is a dome-bulkhead strut just as in the F8x.

There doesn't seem to be a brace between the strut tower (dome) and the A-pillar on the G8x, but it has the dome-dome strut and quite possibly a stiffer structure from the basic vehicle in that area than the F8x had.

[frankiebones]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

. I have never been able to test drive a car prior purchase in the environment that matters most to me: on track. So I do have to rely on paper specs to make my decisions.

Does BMW do "M Track Days" in Canada? I, for example, did several laps in an M2C and would now absolutely consider it as a dedicated track car to compliment my G80. I also drove every other M car on a track. It was kind of annoying because it was "follow the leader" format and you're only as fast as the slowest driver in your group, but it was $750 for the entire day to not put any wear and tear on my own cars.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Boss330

The G8x has the additional dome-dome strut that the F8x don't have as well as the underbody shear plate that connects the front crossmember shear plate with the body structure as seen in the video in my previous post.

Also the video clearly both shows and explains that there is a dome-bulkhead strut just as in the F8x.

There doesn't seem to be a brace between the strut tower (dome) and the A-pillar on the G8x, but it has the dome-dome strut and quite possibly a stiffer structure from the basic vehicle in that area than the F8x had.

I find the image below shows quite well the front stiffening structure on the F8X. As you can see, there also is connectivity with the front bulkhead. I have to assume that the difference in bracing architecture between the G8X and F8X is in part but also importantly defined by the vehicle architecture and engine placement, they can only put braces where there is room to put them. The dome to dome connectivity on the the F8X is not in a straight line, but it is still there to work around the intercooler. The numbers don't lie though, there is no indication that the stiffening measures on the G8X are more effective than they were on the F8X, so they do not justify/explain the weight increase over the F8X as so many argue.

Maybe we should move this discussion to the chassis stiffening thread to keep the thread here thread focused on weight...

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I find the image below shows quite well the front stiffening structure on the F8X. As you can see, there also is connectivity with the front bulkhead. I have to assume that the difference in bracing architecture between the G8X and F8X is in part but also importantly defined by the vehicle architecture and engine placement, they can only put braces where there is room to put them. The dome to dome connectivity on the the F8X is not in a straight line, but it is still there to work around the intercooler. The numbers don't lie though, there is no indication that the stiffening measures on the G8X are more effective than they were on the F8X, so they do not justify/explain the weight increase over the F8X as so many argue.

Maybe we should move this discussion to the chassis stiffening thread to keep the thread here thread focused on weight...

My point is that the G8x has both of the braces with number 1 and 3 on the F8x (the image you shared was the one I also used when comparing them).

However the G8x in addition to braces 1 and 3, also has a true dome-dome brace that the F8x don't have.

[Scorp!on]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I find the image below shows quite well the front stiffening structure on the F8X. As you can see, there also is connectivity with the front bulkhead. I have to assume that the difference in bracing architecture between the G8X and F8X is in part but also importantly defined by the vehicle architecture and engine placement, they can only put braces where there is room to put them. The dome to dome connectivity on the the F8X is not in a straight line, but it is still there to work around the intercooler. The numbers don't lie though, there is no indication that the stiffening measures on the G8X are more effective than they were on the F8X, so they do not justify/explain the weight increase over the F8X as so many argue.

Maybe we should move this discussion to the chassis stiffening thread to keep the thread here thread focused on weight...

question regarding the weight:
As you seem to have the tech knowledge, do you actually know how exactly they saved on the F80/F82 so much weight compared to the F3x ?
And what could have they done to the G8X to save more ?

I don't think the carbon brace over the engine saves THAT much (maybe 1 Kilo or 2 I guess).

Serious question out of curiosity.

Thank you !

[solstice]

Originally Posted by VIERsr

I wonder how much better someone's life would be knowing that his car weighs 100 lbs less.

The guy who just ran a 1:56.1 at Buttonwillow Raceway with a bone stock G82 on PS4Ss must have been unaware of the weight

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Scorp!on

question regarding the weight:
As you seem to have the tech knowledge, do you actually know how exactly they saved on the F80/F82 so much weight compared to the F3x ?
And what could have they done to the G8X to save more ?

I don't think the carbon brace over the engine saves THAT much (maybe 1 Kilo or 2 I guess).

Serious question out of curiosity.

Thank you !

I am not an expert, only a technical geek, but IMO it is because they made it a an overall key design criteria. It is the cumulation of a concerted effort to keep weight down on the F82 on many components that yielded the lower weight over the F32. Meaning that the few kilos of the strut brace gets added to all the grams and kilos saved elsewhere. There was also effort to reduce the weight of the "added" components as much as possible.

Just to name a few items from the top of my head (F82 vs F32)

• CF roof
• CF driveshaft
• Lightweight wheels
• Lightweight structural/reenforcing elements (CF and aluminum)
• Roof CF bow tie
• Composite trunk lid
• Aluminum hood and fenders
• Aluminum suspension components
• Scalloped wheel hubs
• Bespoke aluminum rear subframe
• Aluminum dampers
• Li-ion battery

Sadly, some of those items were removed during the F8X lifecycle (CFRP driveshaft and Mg oil pan for example) and we did see the weight creep up slightly. Thankfully, they were maintained for the M4cs.

Disclaimer to the fanboys: I am not praising/defending the F8X here, just answering a question.

[VIERsr]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I am not an expert, only a technical geek, but IMO it is because they made it a an overall design criteria. It is the cumulation of a concerted effort to keep weight down on the F82 on many components that yielded the lower weight over the F32. Meaning that the few kilos of the strut brace gets added to all the grams and kilos saved elsewhere. There was also effort to reduce the weight of the "added" components as much as possible.

Just to name a few items from the top of my head (F82 vs F32)

• CF roof
• CF driveshaft
• Lightweight wheels
• Lightweight structural/reenforcing elements (CF and aluminum)
• Roof CF bow tie
• Composite trunk lid
• Aluminum hood and fenders
• Aluminum suspension components
• Scalloped wheel hubs
• Bespoke aluminum rear subframe
• Aluminum dampers
• Li-ion battery

Sadly, some of those items were removed during the F8X lifecycle (CFRP driveshaft and Mg oil pan for example) and we did see the weight creep up slightly. Thankfully, they were maintained for the M4cs.

Disclaimer to the fanboys: I am not praising/defending the F8X here, just answering a question.

Not really true. The CFRP driveshaft was removed for size reasons to fit the OPFs when Eu6d-Temp regulations came in, the CS production ended before this "conversion", that's the only reason, not because they wanted to keep the CS lightweight. It didn't make sense to homologate the CS to Eu6d-Temp to produce only a few cars, easier to end production earlier.
The same reason why they ended M2C/CS production in Europe before October 2020, it wasn't worth homologating them to the latest Eu6d-Final.
Just to clarify.

[PLF69]

Would not be surprised with a lot of budget going towards electric vehicles and future concepts the M Dept got a lower budget to work with than when they did the F series.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by VIERsr

Not really true. The CFRP driveshaft was removed for size reasons to fit the OPFs when Eu6d-Temp regulations came in, the CS production ended before this "conversion", that's the only reason, not because they wanted to keep the CS lightweight. It didn't make sense to homologate the CS to Eu6d-Temp to produce only a few cars, easier to end production earlier.
The same reason why they ended M2C/CS production in Europe before October 2020, it wasn't worth homologating them to the latest Eu6d-Final.
Just to clarify.

Better check your facts, the M4cs production ended ~02/20, well after the change to the steel driveshaft. The press release was very clear that the M4cs was exempt of that change. Being a low volume separate model designation, the OPF imposition did not apply to the M4cs. But this is a trivial fact in the discussion.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Boss330

My point is that the G8x has both of the braces with number 1 and 3 on the F8x (the image you shared was the one I also used when comparing them).

However the G8x in addition to braces 1 and 3, also has a true dome-dome brace that the F8x don't have.

Like I said, I am more than willing to entertain this detailed structural discussion in the appropriate thread, just not here to keep it on topic.

[VIERsr]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Better check your facts, the M4cs production ended 02/20, well after the change to the steel driveshaft. The press release was very clear that the M4cs was exempt of that change. Being a low volume separate model designation, the OPF imposition did not apply to the M4cs. But this is a trivial fact in the discussion.

The steel driveshaft was introduced on my2020 and the M4CS in Europe has never been sold as my2020 (production starting from 07-2019). That's why we never had an M4CS with steel driveshaft.