[GuyLedouche]

Originally Posted by Cortexiphan

OP; I'm glad you're okay, and I hope your injuries aren't too annoying.

We all make mistakes sometimes, and when we're unlucky, stuff like this happens. At least you're coming out of this with a life lesson, and nobody was hurt.

And to my fellow Bimmerposters ; come on, don't be this cynical and mean. He's probably already contemplating everything about his life, his driving style, and many other things. His insurance will sky-rocket, he probably has some injuries that he'll feel for a long time, and severe PTSD. Is this the time to attack him, really? Don't kick when he's down.

Severe PTSD? Please.

[G MONEY]

Originally Posted by BMWbiker

He could have killed someone else through his negligence and/or reckless driving.

Like a drunk driver or how about every fucking idiot out there on their phones driving!?!! People are losing their shit about this dude with the tires. Why isn’t everyone talking about the real cause of most accidents? So if he was on his phone and blew a red light which killed 4 people on summer tires in the winter, you would be breaking his balls about tires still? Again, with that much damage he was driving like a tool. Not cautiously going 45

[Custom Install]

Originally Posted by G MONEY

Like a drunk driver or how about every fucking idiot out there on their phones driving!?!! People are losing their shit about this dude with the tires. Why isn’t everyone talking about the real cause of most accidents? So if he was on his phone and blew a red light which killed 4 people on summer tires in the winter, you would be breaking his balls about tires still? Again, with that much damage he was driving like a tool. Not cautiously going 45

Couldn’t agree more.

[Custom Install]

Originally Posted by GuyLedouche

Severe PTSD? Please.

Explain this comment please?

[Al Bundy's Dodge]

Originally Posted by GuyLedouche

Severe PTSD? Please.

Good friend of mine got caught up in a bad wreck that wasn’t his fault. Couldn’t drive for 6 months after due to severe anxiety of getting in another wreck…lost trust in the other drivers around him. PTSD is real for some folks.

[GuyLedouche]

Originally Posted by Custom Install

Explain this comment please?

It’s a bit flippant to just assume this dude has severe PTSD from a minimal injury single vehicle wreck.

I’ve worked with several people with severe diagnosis and it is no joke.

[Custom Install]

Originally Posted by GuyLedouche

It’s a bit flippant to just assume this dude has severe PTSD from a minimal injury single vehicle wreck.

I’ve worked with several people with severe diagnosis and it is no joke.

Ok thank you, I appreciate you explaining that 😊

[baron95]

People are crashing these RWD cars all the time. In the summer they blame them on loose sand and dirt on the road. In the winter it is black ice. In the fall it's deer jumping in front of them.

Then everyone harps on the tires.

That ain't it. It's always too much throttle application for the conditions surprising the driver who does not have quick enough reflexes to control. Simple as that.

Many of us here have gone through that and got lucky and didn't hit anything either on track or on the street.




Here is a story to illustrate. I was doing a BMW M event and was doing the autocross on a G87, sharing the car with another driver. I did my 5 runs. I immediately turned the car over to the other driver (no down time). A minute later...First corner of his first run he spins the car 360 degrees to one direction and 180 in the other (with traction control ON). Puts a ton of mud on the track that took a long time to clean up.

The BMW M head guy comes over in his car, gets pist and starts blaring to everyone "you can't go crazy on cold tires". I'm like...."tires were nice and warm"

It is always the driver (us).

[8MW]

Originally Posted by M2siast

I drive my car the way I want to:
Doing 100 miles an hour in your residential street when your kids are out playing.
Don’t make me out to be an asshole, it’s MY car and I drive it the way I want to.

Amen brotha!

[frequentflyer123]

Originally Posted by BMWbiker

For those who still insist that it is perfectly fine to drive summer tires in winter conditions, ask yourself another question: why don’t you drive winter tires on the racetrack? Because they have the incorrect characteristics for use on the track.

Summer tires have the incorrect characteristics for winter conditions. Others have posted disclaimers and data from the manufacturers of summer tires explaining exactly this.

Racetrack and real world driving are two different things. Temperatures can easily fluctuate in and out of ideal range for the winter/summer tire in a matter of hours for those of us that live in places with milder winters.

In fact, the weather in NYC is between 33 and 61F this Wednesday. Then it falls to between 30 and 40 on Thursday. Only for it to go back up to high 40s to high 50s on the weekend. This is the temperature fluctuation I have to deal with on a weekly basis.

Tell me, should I have winter tires on Wednesday AM, swap them out for summers on Wednesday afternoon, only to swap them back out for winters for Thursday? And then back to summers on the weekend? Surely if you know summers are compromised in the cold, you know winters are also compromised in 60 degree weather. I've driven winters in mid 60s weather and I can definitely tell you handling and braking is compromised. Why did I drive winters in mid 60s weather? Because of the temperature fluctuations people driving in the real world have to deal with in cities with mild winters.

What about A/S tires you might ask? They don't do anything well and I am not really going to carry 3 sets of tires.

I've driven both a F82 and G82 with and without winter tires during the typical NYC winter. My conclusion is winter tires in NYC is overkill. Unless you need to drive when it is snowing out (I don't) or go up to Catskills, you don't need winters for normal day to day driving in and out of the city.

[italiabrain]

Originally Posted by Custom Install

I agree, but here we grow up with it and it’s normal so we drive (or not if conditions are poor) to the surface conditions.
Let me be clear once again, I haven’t ever came across someone who swaps tyres in the winter.
It’s not a thing in the UK, never has been

I can't say for the UK specifically, but just for context the EU regs for what counts as all season requires more snow performance than the US. Also, the vast majority of people just going about their lives driving regular cars are on all-seasons not summer UHP.

[italiabrain]

Originally Posted by frequentflyer123

Racetrack and real world driving are two different things. Temperatures can easily fluctuate in and out of ideal range for the winter/summer tire in a matter of hours for those of us that live in places with milder winters.

In fact, the weather in NYC is between 33 and 61F this Wednesday. Then it falls to between 30 and 40 on Thursday. Only for it to go back up to high 40s to high 50s on the weekend. This is the temperature fluctuation I have to deal with on a weekly basis.

Tell me, should I have winter tires on Wednesday AM, swap them out for summers on Wednesday afternoon, only to swap them back out for winters for Thursday? And then back to summers on the weekend? Surely if you know summers are compromised in the cold, you know winters are also compromised in 60 degree weather. I've driven winters in mid 60s weather and I can definitely tell you handling and braking is compromised. Why did I drive winters in mid 60s weather? Because of the temperature fluctuations people driving in the real world have to deal with in cities with mild winters.

What about A/S tires you might ask? They don't do anything well and I am not really going to carry 3 sets of tires.

I've driven both a F82 and G82 with and without winter tires during the typical NYC winter. My conclusion is winter tires in NYC is overkill. Unless you need to drive when it is snowing out (I don't) or go up to Catskills, you don't need winters for normal day to day driving in and out of the city.

If it's not a rhetorical question... You should change seasonally when you're likely to encounter sustained temps under 40. Obviously if it dips to 39.9 when it had been 60 earlier the same day the road temp is going to be warmer and it's probably going to be okay if you haven't switched yet. 40 isn't some magical number and no one thinks it is, but we have to use something as a guideline and 40 is better than "when it's cold, but before it's really cold". Yes, there is always a trade off, but winters will do better at 60 than summer UHPs will do on ice.

[M2siast]

One thing we failed to consider is that one of his tires could have been slightly under inflated. A difference of 2 psi makes the car spin out automatically as soon as you step on the gas in first gear.

[PVC]

xDrive and snow tires are a must.

[frequentflyer123]

Originally Posted by italiabrain

If it's not a rhetorical question... You should change seasonally when you're likely to encounter sustained temps under 40.

Don't disagree. But how is that relevant for the OP, who was driving in NYC?

The whole point I am trying to make is NYC doesn't have sustained temps under 40F so it's understandable why OP didn't have winters.

You guys all seem to think OP was driving with summer tire in a Minnesota winter or something.

[M2siast]

Originally Posted by frequentflyer123

Don't disagree. But how is that relevant for the OP, who was driving in NYC?

The whole point I am trying to make is NYC doesn't have sustained temps under 40F so it's understandable why OP didn't have winters.

You guys all seem to think OP was driving with summer tire in a Minnesota winter or something.

There’s literal snow on the ground under his car.
Plus, how do you assume this accident happened in NYC? OP is not from there.

[msej449]

Near where I live is the Goodwood race track and they do really great road driving training sessions on their slick track. They use the 230i coupé as their training car. A briefing session and an hour’s 1:1 driver training on the track costs around $150. It’s the best $150 I’ve ever spent in terms of return on investment. You spend the first 20 minutes or so spinning one way and another. Then you start to get the hang of it and by the end your doing controlled J-turns. This sort of on-track learning is impossible to get any other way and means you develop unconscious reflexes that for any performance RWD car are very likely to get you out of trouble, or at least minimise the consequences, if you hit the unexpected or make a mistake.

So for the OP, sorry to hear about the write-off, and glad you escaped unscathed. But if you can, see if there’s a course like this at a track in your area. It really is worth the cost and time.

I’d also echo that fitting winter tyres is going to help reduce the probability of accidents in low temperatures. Of course, it’s no panacea, but it’s something positive you can do. Yes, you have a transition period if spring/autumn temperatures fluctuate but the 7C/45F point isn’t a hard transition, your winters will still be safe as long as you don’t take them into early summer. They’ll also be better at coping with winter rain and standing water, reducing the risk of hydro planing compared to slicker summers. The compound chemistry and high sipe density means that the tyres warm up much faster than summers as well. That they are so much better on snow is sort of icing on the cake.

Here I am in a Euro BMW M140i (hatchback spec’ the same straight-6 turbo RWD as the M240i) on the Goodwood course. While the surface is fairly smooth and kept wet, it’s still not that far off a public road scenario.

https://youtu.be/py3eQTxaKr4?si=3vtduCpEW25TjM9Y

[WhoShavedMyBimmer]

Originally Posted by M2siast

An oxymoron of a post.
- Complains about the discussion about tires and drive modes saying it’s throwing shade (supposedly we should all just say sorry and give him a high five).

- thanks the discussion for learning something about tires and drive modes.

Which is it?

Haha good discussion overall for my learning re tires etc!

Just some negative comments on insurance and being idiotic might not be necessary, I’m sure he learned his lesson.

Hopefully that provides clarity bro

[M2siast]

Originally Posted by WhoShavedMyBimmer

Haha good discussion overall for my learning re tires etc!

Just some negative comments on insurance and being idiotic might not be necessary, I’m sure he learned his lesson.

Hopefully that provides clarity bro

I agree with you.

[KoenG]

My sympathy to the OP! I would be really heart broken to see this happen to my dream car!

In opposition to the general trend in the debate here, I don't believe winter tires could have saved you. When you're on black ice, real winter tires would have added their few percent, but not make a world of difference.

You just had your huge portion of bad luck! I hope things clear up for you as from now on!

[JohnEnglish]

From my own experience, a patch of black ice on the road will cause multiple accidents. The OP's car is the only one involved. I'm guessing the "black ice" was just the tires losing grip since they were rock hard.

It'll be interesting to see how the police handle it. I know someone who got a careless driving charge after they were involved in a single vehicle accident in the winter while on summer tires.

[NOVA99]

Summer Tires + February + New York = Moron.