[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by Diesel power

Agreed, for better or worse, the idea of a car evolving over time was inconceivable until Tesla brought the Silicon Valley mentality to cars. Now it's very common across the industry. I'm sure we all got our little Fourth of July easter egg from BMW last week. That NEVER would have happened without Tesla.

True. BMW’s sw updates are unstable and I fear them. First time the car said drivetrain error pull over don’t drive. The second one said the battery failed get towed. So even though the faults cleared overnight, I don’t do them anymore. On the other hand, Audi requires you to have a 2 hour service visit, so it could be worse. It’s a great thought that the SW will improve the car, but over the years with Tesla I wasn’t super impressed. Like, they can do a light show but can’t fix the windshield wipers? But I suppose it’s super helpful for full self drive. My friend bought FSD and waited six years for it to be implemented. Very patient.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

True. BMW’s sw updates are unstable and I fear them. First time the car said drivetrain error pull over don’t drive. The second one said the battery failed get towed. So even though the faults cleared overnight, I don’t do them anymore. On the other hand, Audi requires you to have a 2 hour service visit, so it could be worse. It’s a great thought that the SW will improve the car, but over the years with Tesla I wasn’t super impressed. Like, they can do a light show but can’t fix the windshield wipers? But I suppose it’s super helpful for full self drive. My friend bought FSD and waited six years for it to be implemented. Very patient.

In this thread you have reminded me about the never-fully-fixable stink from the AC and the janky AF wipers. Thank you for reminding me of some of the reasons I dumped mine.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

In this thread you have reminded me about the never-fully-fixable stink from the AC and the janky AF wipers. Thank you for reminding me of some of the reasons I dumped mine.

You’re welcome! My daughter has a sensitive nose and described the smell of the Tesla as “dog poop.” And literally when it rained I wouldn’t drive the car, the windshield wipers are so aggravating.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

You’re welcome! My daughter has a sensitive nose and described the smell of the Tesla as “dog poop.” And literally when it rained I wouldn’t drive the car, the windshield wipers are so aggravating.

I never would have classified it as dog poop. Smelled more like moldy wet towel. Either way, 60 days after cleaning the ducts, smell would always come back.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

I never would have classified it as dog poop. Smelled more like moldy wet towel. Either way, 60 days after cleaning the ducts, smell would always come back.

Yeah, well, she’s 6 and that’s the worst smell she could imagine.

By the way, it is avoidable - at least the wet towel smell - just keep on recirc air when it’s raining. The mechanism to pull in outside air is inferior and allows water to enter into the air filter along with debris when parking (if under trees or in a situation where debris is blowing onto the car and running the A/C with outside air).

[Mr Friese]

Finally got a chance to see one of these up close at the local showroom and as someone that previously owned a Model 3 and a Model y (and of course several BMW M3s) I must say, the new Highland platform is a HUGE step up in quality. The interior alone is probably 4 or 5 notches above the previous platform. Not quite M3 levels of refinement of course, but it is getting close.

Definitely encourage anyone that hasn't sat in one of these to check it out. The ventilated sport seats are a site to behold.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by Mr Friese

Finally got a chance to see one of these up close at the local showroom and as someone that previously owned a Model 3 and a Model y (and of course several BMW M3s) I must say, the new Highland platform is a HUGE step up in quality. The interior alone is probably 4 or 5 notches above the previous platform. Not quite M3 levels of refinement of course, but it is getting close.

Definitely encourage anyone that hasn't sat in one of these to check it out. The ventilated sport seats are a site to behold.

I tried one out and wasn’t impressed. Not getting anywhere close to the M3 in quality or ergonomics. I had one on order, so I had an incentive to follow through. Like you, I also have owned two prior Teslas (3p & Y).

It’s interesting that we could have totally opposite impressions of the car. Maybe I was in a bad mood? Hungry or tired perhaps.

[Mr Friese]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

I tried one out and wasn’t impressed. Not getting anywhere close to the M3 in quality or ergonomics. I had one on order, so I had an incentive to follow through. Like you, I also have owned two prior Teslas (3p & Y).

It’s interesting that we could have totally opposite impressions of the car. Maybe I was in a bad mood? Hungry or tired perhaps.

Yeah that’s surprising. The new interior makes my MYP and M3P look downright draconian. Again, still some ground to go but it’s a significant improvement IMO.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by Mr Friese

Yeah that’s surprising. The new interior makes my MYP and M3P look downright draconian. Again, still some ground to go but it’s a significant improvement IMO.

The seats are better and the CF trim is cool, but everything else seems about the same.

[M370z]

2.7 0-60 with rollout, 10.8 in the 1/4, adjustable suspension, ventilated sports seats, forged wheels, CF aero and interior bits and can be had for under 50k with the tax rebate

Can someone fill me in on why people are complaining? If there’s anything remotely close to this out there for the price, let me know and I’ll buy it immediately

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by M370z

2.7 0-60 with rollout, 10.8 in the 1/4, adjustable suspension, ventilated sports seats, forged wheels, CF aero and interior bits and can be had for under 50k with the tax rebate

Can someone fill me in on why people are complaining? If there’s anything remotely close to this out there for the price, let me know and I’ll buy it immediately

If you are buying a car solely on stats, there is nothing that can hold a candle to a Tesla $ / performance wise. Nothing. nada. Zip. And if that's all you want, it's a great car. People are complaining because Tesla hasn't changed who they are, which is bad service, fickle pricing, a maniac for a CEO and horrible customer service.

I need to go drive one to see how much has changed pre-facelift. It does look a lot nicer.

[Bimmerfun82]

Yes, exactly. And I have a justified complaint about removing stalks and about the terrible windshield wipers, rattles, smells, lack of HUD, leather, and inferior chassis dynamics (relative to an M3). Again, call me in 15 months and let me know how the car is holding up.

Those complaints aside, if it’s acceleration you want and decent range and electric then it’s a great car. At the price point it blows everything out of the water and I’d gladly take one … if I could get past all the other complaints.

And I understand the value argument, but I lost $25k on my model Y in a year and a half. So that argument is kind of lost on me. And I don’t qualify for the tax credit. I’d lose the same amount on an M3 over 3 years. Thankfully my first model 3 p we drove 15k miles and lost no $. Maybe this one will be more like that. Doubt it.

[stevefullgas]

Originally Posted by M370z

2.7 0-60 with rollout, 10.8 in the 1/4, adjustable suspension, ventilated sports seats, forged wheels, CF aero and interior bits and can be had for under 50k with the tax rebate

Can someone fill me in on why people are complaining? If there’s anything remotely close to this out there for the price, let me know and I’ll buy it immediately

If you read the different threads you see 1) some Tesla owners complaining about some issue and therefore commenting on getting/not getting the new and 2) other commenting of comparing the m3p with other cars, that is pretty silly as the driving experience is many many factors and not pure fact sheet 0/60 1/4 etc.

The pure stats of m3p are great as many are pointing out, no question, but there is much more in driving a car than 0-60 . If you have experience driving you know better and I don’t have to explain .

Nobody will shift from m3 or other “slower cars “ (Porsche) unless they are broke and they need to downgrade .

You get a Tesla as a daily, and at that stage you get a dual motor, save the money (and depreciation) and you try to get a real car.

[Needsdecaf]

BMW, and especially Porsche, would not release a “performance” EV with thermals this weak.

[BeamerBoomer]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

BMW, and especially Porsche, would not release a “performance” EV with thermals this weak.

It is exactly this. The stats are meaningless if they cannot be kept beyond a few runs or minutes. And to put some sport seats, a single carbon piece or red brake calipers on a car like real sports cars have for decades, does not make it special. There is a reason why this thing is cheap. Here in Germany the model 3P is even worse, but I am sure if the US model could be driven here on the Autobahn, it would show the same deficiencies sooner or later, maybe at slightly later time if the battery holds longer.

[Mr Friese]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

BMW, and especially Porsche, would not release a “performance” EV with thermals this weak.

This is the Euro spec version that has a completely different (and inferior) battery than the US version.

[z335is]

Originally Posted by Mr Friese

This is the Euro spec version that has a completely different (and inferior) battery than the US version.

Right, the US version uses a far more efficient and powerful Panasonic battery, versus the LG one that Europe gets. Not really sure of the relevance of this video unless it was aimed at the EU.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by z335is

Right, the US version uses a far more efficient and powerful Panasonic battery, versus the LG one that Europe gets. Not really sure of the relevance of this video unless it was aimed at the EU.

Cool, cool, so let me get this straight..

...Tesla releases two versions of the car. Neither has good thermals, even though both are branded performance and both have the identical power outputs, etc. And the car that actually lives in Europe where you'd use that higher output for longer times on the autobahn has the worse battery and somehow this is ok?

Originally Posted by Mr Friese

This is the Euro spec version that has a completely different (and inferior) battery than the US version.

It's not COMPLETELY different. It's not like it's an air-cooled Nissan Leaf battery.

The fact is, the car is advertised as "Performance" and has neither the brakes nor the battery thermals to cash the checks the badge and the acceleration are writing. The first Gen Taycan wasn't this bad and Porsche still sought to upgrade it for the second gen.

[ERMBA]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

…especially Porsche, would not release a “performance” EV with thermals this weak.

Except that’s exactly what Porsche did with the first generation of Taycan. It lasted just about exactly the length of the Nurburgring, then faded badly:

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-mode...ack-video/amp/

[Diesel power]

Noone buys an EV specifically for track use. The Nurburgring has become the ultimate measuring stick and thus people will take all types of cars on it to compare. Ultimately, if you're use case includes "the occasional track day" and you buy an EV you should not be surprised at the outcome. Colin Chapman didn't say "but first add 1,000 extra pounds, too much power, and not enough tire or brakes"
I believe Decaf was referring to the fact that the first gen Taycan's could do repeated launches and general high performance driving without cutting power like Tesla's are known to do almost immediately.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by ERMBA

Except that’s exactly what Porsche did with the first generation of Taycan. It lasted just about exactly the length of the Nurburgring, then faded badly:

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-mode...ack-video/amp/

I have a friend who is a performance EV owner as well as ICE. Currently owns GT3, Turbo S. Has a Macan EV turbo on the way. Has had Taycan Turbo, Model 3 Performamce, Model S P100D, P90D, etc. Has tracked all of them.

The Taycan lasted the best. The Model 3 couldn't do squat on the track without overheating. The Tacan could last about 2/3 of a session at Laguna before overheating. The Model 3 got maybe 3 laps.

The Ring is an aberration. It is very difficult for any EV because of how much WOT there is. My buddy has done multiple Porsche track experiences, including the Ring, and spoke to a development engineer of the Taycan who was one of the instructors. The engineer admitted that they really had to work to get the Taycan to make it a whole lap. Still better than a Model 3 Performance. Hence the focus on improving for Gen 2. Which it did.

[ERMBA]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

The Taycan lasted the best. The Model 3 couldn't do squat on the track without overheating. T

And yet in the only actual races where the Model 3P and Taycan Turbo S competed, the Taycan wilted first and most, and ultimately lost all 3 races.