[ember.m4]

Originally Posted by jmg

Any follow up on this? I'm looking for a track/street pad that isn't to noisy, but a bit of an upgrade over factory. Compromises on cold braking is okay. How are the MX72-PLUS on track? Noisy on street?

It's been pretty good so far.

For Street:

• Worse cold bite than stock, but nowhere near bad enough to be an issue on the street. You have to press the brakes a bit harder, but it's more of a slight nuisance than anything dangerous.
• Generates less brake dust than stock. I don't know what BMW did, but the stock pads dust like crazy.
• Noisier than stock for sure. Once you brake lightly for a while and wear off that layer of pad material on the rotors, it'll start squeaking. It's nowhere near as bad as a race car, but it's definitely audible from within the cabin. You can always just brake more aggressively or bed the pads in again to get rid of it.

For Track:

• Way better wear than stock. Stock pads last me about a 1-1.5 track days at Laguna Seca. I've now used the MX72-Plus for 2 track days and it's still got a lot of life left.
• Less bite and better modulation than stock. The stock pads have good bite, but they feel a bit grabby. It wasn't very confidence inspiring when trail braking. These pads are much better in this regard, but it feels like I have to press a bit harder to get the same amount of deceleration.

My main issue with the pad is that track use is still glazing my rotors a bit. After a hard track day, I get vibrations on the highway while braking. This usually goes away in a month or two of street driving, but it's a bit annoying. I'll probably go a step up and try the ME20 next and see how that compares. I'm basically trying to find the least aggressive compound that still gets the job done. If anyone on here has better recommendations, let me know.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by ember.m4

My main issue with the pad is that track use is still glazing my rotors a bit. After a hard track day, I get vibrations on the highway while braking. This usually goes away in a month or two of street driving, but it's a bit annoying. I'll probably go a step up and try the ME20 next and see how that compares. I'm basically trying to find the least aggressive compound that still gets the job done. If anyone on here has better recommendations, let me know.

This is my problem as well. My EBC Blues glaze on brake heavy days, then it just vibrates whenever they get heat back into them.

I think we are all in search of that perfect pad: low/no noise, no glazing, good modulation, safe for street.

[ember.m4]

Originally Posted by jmg

This is my problem as well. My EBC Blues glaze on brake heavy days, then it just vibrates whenever they get heat back into them.

I think we are all in search of that perfect pad: low/no noise, no glazing, good modulation, safe for street.

Yeah, sadly our nearly 4000 lb cars generates a ton of heat braking. On a scale from street to aggressive, the MX72-plus is more aggressive than the blues, so you may still want to give them a try to see if they are enough for you. Depending on your track and how aggressive you drive, you may find them sufficient. For example, I am able to drive buttonwillow with no glazing (fewer hard braking zones), but can’t do Laguna. For reference, the advertised operating temp ranges for the compounds are:

Blues: 0-550C
MX72-Plus: 50-750C
ME20: 150-800C

You’ll notice as you go more aggressive the cold temps fall out of operating range, hence the inconsistent cold bite feel.

[lizardx]

What about N39S?

Friction: 0,42-0,52μ
Heat levels: 0-850°C

They work from cold and have agressive initial bite with very strong overall braking power; however they are slightly harder to modulate. I tried them on Giulia QV (similar type of vehicle as M3 - weight, power, rwd saloon).

Or perhaps endurance compounds (haven't tried those yet); like MA46B; they have lower braking power, can take a lot of heat, and should last 2-3x longer than sprint/track day pads like ME20, N39S,... But cost twice as much and won't really work well from cold.

[BackOnBlack]

Originally Posted by jmg

I think we are all in search of that perfect pad: low/no noise, no glazing, good modulation, safe for street.

I think RS29s are it.

[Montaver]

Are there any PFC or Ferrodo offerings yet? I cannot seem to find any. I think Ferrodo DS3.12 would be perfect for this platform. Pagid RSL29’s can work if there is no other option I will run them on my G87 and see, but the 3.12’s the best track pads I’ve ever used.

[BackOnBlack]

Originally Posted by Montaver

Are there any PFC or Ferrodo offerings yet? I cannot seem to find any. I think Ferrodo DS3.12 would be perfect for this platform. Pagid RSL29’s can work if there is no other option I will run them on my G87 and see, but the 3.12’s the best track pads I’ve ever used.

I think 3.12s are really great pads for track, but they consume the rotors way too much IMHO, which is the reason I prefer the RS29s as all purpose pads.

[fl1by]

I just Finished Barber Motorsport 2 day event and the Blue stuff is great, but like yourselves trying to find streetable track options. Changing out pads after every event is no fun, even if you have the time.

It will be interesting if going to VS-5RS wheels will help with heat dissipation some. But having gone to supercar3 from PS4S and PZero will work them harder. VIR has some speed to get rid of for sure, but Barber never gives the brakes much time off.

[Montaver]

DS3.12’s have really nice bite when cold as well, although I wouldn’t daily drive on them. I have always used Girodisc rotors and they hold up no problem. In my experience there isn’t really one pad that can do it all. You can go something like a DS2500 but it’s really sub optimal on track and will get worn down very quickly if you put too much heat in it. I have never used RSL 29’s but looking at their graph they look more similar to a DS1.11 or a PFC 11 which are both good pads but less aggressive than a 3.12.

[BackOnBlack]

While doing track inspection, I took a couple of picture of the front pads. The following are after a single event at Summit Point, which I would consider moderate to highly tough on brakes. The wear is about 1 mm at this time, the RSL29s are holding up very well at this time.

[m4ml]

Originally Posted by BackOnBlack

While doing track inspection, I took a couple of picture of the front pads. The following are after a single event at Summit Point, which I would consider moderate to highly tough on brakes. The wear is about 1 mm at this time, the RSL29s are holding up very well at this time.

Pretty much the exact same experience with the RSL29s after two days (9 25-minute sessions) at Buttonwillow.

[M4XC-MT]

2023 M4XC, I've ran Carbotech pad a few times on the track, which perform vary similar to Pagid RSL29. I've also run them on the car around town before switching back to the OEM pads, with no issues.

[adc]

Folks, I run a fast F80 on Brembo brakes, peeking into the G8x world as a potential switch.

For 200TW tires, I would unquestionably try the PFC 08/11 combo, if they produce that (part numbers exist so that is promising). The PFC has been the Goldilocks pad for intermediate drivers on BMW for a very long time. I’ve run them on my E46, on the E90, on two iterations of F80. Put them on and leave them on for the season.

[rafaeldelrey]

Had one track day (Sebring) with stock pads and fluid on a M4 Comp Convertible, a month ago. No brake fade, although I haven't had a very long sessions. Collision mitigation system was triggered most laps, once.

Added Cobalt track pads, Motul RBF 600. Car was braking way better. I was triggering the ABS more often and the collision mitigation system was being activated multiple times in a lap. Then my instructor suggested to break smoother, earlier and, consequently, longer. After a total of 8 laps (two with regular braking, 6 with longer braking), brake entered emergency mode due to overheating, ie. I had brake fade. The lap before the fade, the car was giving signs of problem, as I it was unstable during straight line braking. If you think you brake is acting weird, pit down and avoid any problem. That's what I did after 4 laps in each of the next two sessions. The brake wasn't as good anymore, after the fading (moisture absortion, I assume). I had forgotten to remove the brake cooling covers in the first session.

Now I don't know if the track brake pad was the culprit, or the different brake style, or the longer session. Or a combination of all.

I finished the first track day so happy for the stock car having handled it without brake fade, and after the second one, with supposedly more prepared brakes, I m trying to find any excuse to not be disappointed at the M4. I had been to various brake fades in the 40+ events I ve taken in the past with other cars.

Today I have tested the stock brake pads in a M3 CS, in the road, right after using the M4. The Cobalts brakes bites way stronger and brakes way more,, but it is considerably louder. It was so different that for a moment I thought the M3 brakes werent working well.

After 16 laps, the Cobalt have still a lot of meat.

Would you say the Pagid RSL29 is somewhere between the stock and the cobalt in terms of braking power? I don't care a lot about the noise (neither my wife, who drives the M4 daily), and I care even less about dirt. It seems the Pagid have lifetime replacement at ECS Tuning, so it would be an interesting option.

[Ximian]

Originally Posted by rafaeldelrey

Had one track day (Sebring) with stock pads and fluid on a M4 Comp Convertible, a month ago. No brake fade, although I haven't had a very long sessions. Collision mitigation system was triggered most laps, once.

Added Cobalt track pads, Motul RBF 600. Car was braking way better. I was triggering the ABS more often and the collision mitigation system was being activated multiple times in a lap. Then my instructor suggested to break smoother, earlier and, consequently, longer. After a total of 8 laps (two with regular braking, 6 with longer braking), brake entered emergency mode due to overheating, ie. I had brake fade. The lap before the fade, the car was giving signs of problem, as I it was unstable during straight line braking. If you think you brake is acting weird, pit down and avoid any problem. That's what I did after 4 laps in each of the next two sessions. The brake wasn't as good anymore, after the fading (moisture absortion, I assume). I had forgotten to remove the brake cooling covers in the first session.

Now I don't know if the track brake pad was the culprit, or the different brake style, or the longer session. Or a combination of all.

I finished the first track day so happy for the stock car having handled it without brake fade, and after the second one, with supposedly more prepared brakes, I m trying to find any excuse to not be disappointed at the M4. I had been to various brake fades in the 40+ events I ve taken in the past with other cars.

Today I have tested the stock brake pads in a M3 CS, in the road, right after using the M4. The Cobalts brakes bites way stronger and brakes way more,, but it is considerably louder. It was so different that for a moment I thought the M3 brakes werent working well.

After 16 laps, the Cobalt have still a lot of meat.

Would you say the Pagid RSL29 is somewhere between the stock and the cobalt in terms of braking power? I don't care a lot about the noise (neither my wife, who drives the M4 daily), and I care even less about dirt. It seems the Pagid have lifetime replacement at ECS Tuning, so it would be an interesting option.

Something seems wrong with your brakes.

Generally speaking, braking softer and over a longer period of time to a target speed for a corner has a lower peak temperature than braking harder and shorter to a target speed.

What quite a few people end up doing is braking hard, overslowing, then spend a lot more time in a corner and the subsequent section. Sometimes long enough to help cool off the brakes because lap times are longer.

When they start braking earlier and less, they end up not overslowing as much and going faster through a corner. Several laps of this will cause heat to build up in the brakes because the lap times are faster.

If you're getting heat warning triggered 4 lap in, something isn't working properly. Sebring has quite a few long straights to allow the brakes to cool.

The Pagid RSL29 is an endurance compound and you should be able to run it for several track days even with the brake cooling duct vent closed without seeing pad fade.

Which compound of the Cobalt pad was it? If it was either XR1, XR2, or XR3, I wouldn't expect any problems with them on the track. If it was XR4 or XR5, those aren't as track oriented and I would expect to see fade with them.

Motul 600 isn't the best brake fluid as far as highest dry boiling point, but it's better the stock fluid. Even stock fluid can handle quite a bit of track driving.

If the brake pad compound is sufficient and your braking style isn't really a concern, my next guess would be that there might be some air bubbles in the brake lines. If during the brake fluid change the brake reservoir became empty, that would have introduced air into the hard line from the reservoir and master cylinder to the ABS/DSC module. It could have sent smaller air bubbles to the other four hard lines and potentially kept some air bubbles in the valves that get released when ABS is activated. It takes a very small amount of air to cause issues like this.

What I would do is go to a very experienced shop and have them pressure bleed the brake fluid, do the bleed with ABS activation (bleeding each corner after ABS on that specific brake caliper), then do another regular pressure bleed.

[ZPD]

I have used EBC Blue, G-loc R12, G-Loc R16, Pagid RS29, and Cobalt XR1.
I wrote about it here:

https://g87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=2104329

[shwayne5]

Originally Posted by BackOnBlack

I think RS29s are it.

Completely agree. I’ve run multiple pads on my g80 for track duty and none wear as well as the pagids and they make the least amount of noise while street driving. For anyone saying they had issues after track day with vibrations etc., I’m guessing that is uneven pad material distributed on the rotors. If you bed the brakes like you’re supposed to after install, this shouldn’t be happening with any good quality pad. Follow the procedures that the pad manufacturer gives. It will make them last longer too.

[shwayne5]

Originally Posted by rafaeldelrey

Had one track day (Sebring) with stock pads and fluid on a M4 Comp Convertible, a month ago. No brake fade, although I haven't had a very long sessions. Collision mitigation system was triggered most laps, once.

Added Cobalt track pads, Motul RBF 600. Car was braking way better. I was triggering the ABS more often and the collision mitigation system was being activated multiple times in a lap. Then my instructor suggested to break smoother, earlier and, consequently, longer. After a total of 8 laps (two with regular braking, 6 with longer braking), brake entered emergency mode due to overheating, ie. I had brake fade. The lap before the fade, the car was giving signs of problem, as I it was unstable during straight line braking. If you think you brake is acting weird, pit down and avoid any problem. That's what I did after 4 laps in each of the next two sessions. The brake wasn't as good anymore, after the fading (moisture absortion, I assume). I had forgotten to remove the brake cooling covers in the first session.

Now I don't know if the track brake pad was the culprit, or the different brake style, or the longer session. Or a combination of all.

I finished the first track day so happy for the stock car having handled it without brake fade, and after the second one, with supposedly more prepared brakes, I m trying to find any excuse to not be disappointed at the M4. I had been to various brake fades in the 40+ events I ve taken in the past with other cars.

Today I have tested the stock brake pads in a M3 CS, in the road, right after using the M4. [...]

The Pagid does not have the same initial bite as a more aggressive pad by carbotech like xp12 or xp16. There is no xp16 for our cars. Xp20 is crazy aggressive and will probably eat your rotors. I burned through a set of xp12s in two track days. Pagids last me 6-8.

[rafaeldelrey]

Originally Posted by Ximian

Something seems wrong with your brakes.

Generally speaking, braking softer and over a longer period of time to a target speed for a corner has a lower peak temperature than braking harder and shorter to a target speed.

What quite a few people end up doing is braking hard, overslowing, then spend a lot more time in a corner and the subsequent section. Sometimes long enough to help cool off the brakes because lap times are longer.

When they start braking earlier and less, they end up not overslowing as much and going faster through a corner. Several laps of this will cause heat to build up in the brakes because the lap times are faster.

If you're getting heat warning triggered 4 lap in, something isn't working properly. Sebring has quite a few long straights to allow the brakes to cool.

The Pagid RSL29 is an endurance compound and you should be able to run it for several track days even with the brake cooling duct vent closed without seeing pad fade.

Which compound of the Cobalt pad was it? If it was either XR1, XR2, or XR3, I wouldn't expect any problems with them on the track. If it was XR4 or XR5, those aren't as track oriented and I would expect to see fade with them.

Motul 600 isn't the best brake fluid as far as highest dry boiling point, but it's better the stock fluid. Even stock fluid can handle quite a bit of track driving.

If the brake pad compound is sufficient and your braking style isn't really a concern, my next guess would be that there might be some air bubbles in the brake lines. If during the brake fluid change the [...]

Sent the car to a shop used to prepare track and race cars. They found out a lot of air in the braking system. Brake pads got vitrified due to extreme heat and are going to be replaced.

[Ximian]

Originally Posted by rafaeldelrey

Sent the car to a shop used to prepare track and race cars. They found out a lot of air in the braking system. Brake pads got vitrified due to extreme heat and are going to be replaced.

Same shop that did the Motul RBF600 brake fluid change?

Just today I paid my preferred track/race shop $300 covering only labor for the ISTA/DSCi brake fluid bleed. Doing it that way took over an hour.

The new DSC/ABS module has more sensors and keeps track of various metrics for brake fluid such as pressure. If you do a pressure bleed without using ISTA and the car is powered on, it will likely throw codes if it detected pressure changes on the brake lines.

I'm not sure how it's happening, but some people are also introducing air into the brake fluid lines by allegedly pressuring bleeding. I think what might have happened is someone pushing in the brake pedal and a second person cracking open a bleeder valve - this method will not work for our cars.

It's still early on with knowing what is a fact and what is a math regarding brake fluid flushes on our cars. I thought about disconnecting the battery and doing a pressure brake bleed myself as others have reported doing it successfully, but with the few anecdotes of people having issues after a brake fluid flush without ISTA on similar cars, I decided not to take a chance.

Having a good shop support you that has plenty of track/race experience is very important if reducing or avoiding big issues with this hobby.

[Ximian]

Originally Posted by shwayne5

The Pagid does not have the same initial bite as a more aggressive pad by carbotech like xp12 or xp16. There is no xp16 for our cars. Xp20 is crazy aggressive and will probably eat your rotors. I burned through a set of xp12s in two track days. Pagids last me 6-8.

XP20s are wonderful.

The trend generally is if a brake pad wears out quickly, it's more gentle on the rotors. If a brake pad can last many track days, that one is not gentle on the rotors.

RSL29 is an endurance pad meant to last as long as a rotor. XP20 is a pad with a very aggressive bite but also lasts quite a long time.

Top of the temperature range for the XP12 is 1850F while for the XP20 it is 2000F. That's a huge difference. For RSL29, the top of the range for "fade resistance" is 1200F.

For reference, I can go through a set of 18mm XP12s on the E92 M3 with slicks in two to three days. XP20 lasts twice as long. While both compounds can handle very high temperatures without sacrificing much braking performance, wear is clearly an issue at those temperatures.

[Ximian]

I have the EBC 2 piece rotors (in the front only) paired with RSL29s. The slotted rotors generally wear out brake pads quicker so we'll so how these handle the track day coming up.