[SM2]

Glad your ok. Not sure if winter tires would’ve helped on black ice. But, when you drive on summer tires below 40 degrees, think about a hockey puck on ice, ideal to have winter tires especially on a 85k car.

[josec70]

OP, glad you’re OK and I applaud the fact you shared your story, as the thread may undoubtedly prevent this from happening to someone else with more tragic results.

God is perfect, we are not.

[astroricardo]

I didn't want to be the only one not to post something

[baron95]

Originally Posted by GuyLedouche

Glad you didn’t kill anyone. PS4S have 0 traction below 45 degrees.

Why do people write and post stuff like that? Zero traction? Really? At 45 degrees they have traction. At 44.5 degrees they have zero traction. Do you know how idiotic that statement is?

On absolutely dry roads, at 32-45F the star spec MPS4S, properly warmed (i.e. after driving a mile or two with some braking and turning in between) will have MORE traction than any winter tire on the market. That means shorter stopping distances, better acceleration and better cornering. There are plenty of actual data on it.

If there is ANY frozen precipitation on the road, then it is a horrible idea to drive on PS4S. I doubt you will even manage to get moving up any incline.

If there is water precipitation, it is hard to get the PS4S warmed up on the street the closer you get to 32F. The crossover point in traction vs a winter tire will be some here in the 40-45F zone. You should really avoid driving them in the wet below 40F.






As to this accident, like almost all accidents it is driver error (duh!). I'm glad no one was injured. It's doubtful there was black ice on the road - usually when there is, you will see multiple cars crashing in that spot, not just one, and not just the 500HP one.

OP - I feel bad for you. Best of luck with the process of getting your car replaced.

[AhsanU]

Holy shit OP - glad you're safe.

I saw you just the other day as I'm the Dakar Yellow G80 owner you see around New Rochelle. Sucks that this happened brother, I had no idea you were on the forums. Reach out to me if you need anything.

[G MONEY]

Moral of this story. When driving in cold weather, start your car. Do a few quick burnouts to heat up the hockey puck tires, then haul ass to your location

[BMWbiker]

Originally Posted by Jeremy V

How in the world would winter tires have helped in this scenario 🙄

By offering enough traction not to crash… 🙄

[supershaft]

Originally Posted by G MONEY

Moral of this story. When driving in cold weather, start your car. Do a few quick burnouts to heat up the hockey puck tires, then haul ass to your location

also, drive in reverse so you are technically in a rear engine car! More traction!

[BMWbiker]

Originally Posted by nalnass

My car came with summer tires. I had to drive it home 2 hours in January in Colorado. Should I have just left it at the dealer til May? I can’t roll my eyes any harder

Maybe.

Or put snow tires on it.

Or trailered it.

Or arranged to have it delivered to you.

[M2siast]

Originally Posted by baron95

Why do people write and post stuff like that? Zero traction? Really? At 45 degrees they have traction. At 44.5 degrees they have zero traction. Do you know how idiotic that statement is?

On absolutely dry roads, at 32-45F the star spec MPS4S, properly warmed (i.e. after driving a mile or two with some braking and turning in between) will have MORE traction than any winter tire on the market. That means shorter stopping distances, better acceleration and better cornering. There are plenty of actual data on it.

If there is ANY frozen precipitation on the road, then it is a horrible idea to drive on PS4S. I doubt you will even manage to get moving up any incline.

If there is water precipitation, it is hard to get the PS4S warmed up on the street the closer you get to 32F. The crossover point in traction vs a winter tire will be some here in the 40-45F zone. You should really avoid driving them in the wet below 40F.






As to this accident, like almost all accidents it is driver error (duh!). I'm glad no one was injured. It's doubtful there was black ice on the road - usually when there is, you will see multiple cars crashing in that spot, not just one, and not just the 500HP one.

OP - I feel bad for you. Best of luck with the process of getting your car replaced.

While I agree tires have some traction, it’s patently false that star spec tires have more traction than winter tires.

Plus, they don’t get up to temperature, unless you’re auto crossing in your driveway for a few minutes before going out on the road, which is also impossible.

It’s a good recommendation to use winter tires in the winter. It’s not a good recommendation to use summer tires in the winter.

[Forzanerazzurri]

Originally Posted by baron95

Why do people write and post stuff like that? Zero traction? Really? At 45 degrees they have traction. At 44.5 degrees they have zero traction. Do you know how idiotic that statement is?

On absolutely dry roads, at 32-45F the star spec MPS4S, properly warmed (i.e. after driving a mile or two with some braking and turning in between) will have MORE traction than any winter tire on the market. That means shorter stopping distances, better acceleration and better cornering. There are plenty of actual data on it.

If there is ANY frozen precipitation on the road, then it is a horrible idea to drive on PS4S. I doubt you will even manage to get moving up any incline.

If there is water precipitation, it is hard to get the PS4S warmed up on the street the closer you get to 32F. The crossover point in traction vs a winter tire will be some here in the 40-45F zone. You should really avoid driving them in the wet below 40F.






As to this accident, like almost all accidents it is driver error (duh!). I'm glad no one was injured. It's doubtful there was black ice on the road - usually when there is, you will see multiple cars crashing in that spot, not just one, and not just the 500HP one.

OP - I feel bad for you. Best of luck with the process of getting your car replaced.

I'd be interested in seeing this data.

[BMWbiker]

This thread reminds me of an experience I had years ago.

I bought a new B5 S4 Avant 6MT. It came with summer tires. Intellectually, I knew that summer tires are dangerous in winter conditions, so I ordered snow tires. They would arrive in a few days.

The next day, I took a family out for dinner in it. The weather was in the low 50s. An unexpected cold wave came through while we were at dinner. I saw car after car in the ditch as I drove home. Needless to say I drove very carefully.

I dropped people off at their house, and socialized with them for a while. Then I went out to the car to go home. In the interim, maybe 1/8 inch of snow had fallen.

I figured that I could make the short distance to get home, right?

Wrong. I spun all four wheels without moving. I managed to move the car a few feet before wising up and giving up.

I ended up crashing on a pull-out couch, rather than on the road.

The snow tires arrived. From then on, the car was a billygoat in the snow. I could literally plow the powder with the front bumper while driving uphill.

Winter tires are worth every penny in the winter. All seasons are a compromise. Summers are hazardous. It’s that simple.

Why cheap out when you own an expensive car, and when your life and the lives of others are at stake?

[5_chill]

Everytime someone crashes one of these, they weren’t doing anything wrong lol and they’re were driving slow.

[baron95]

Originally Posted by Forzanerazzurri

I'd be interested in seeing this data.

Search on Tyre Reviews.

One datapoint that anyone can reproduce, at ~35F in the dry on a fun drive my PS4S will be at around 70F. Any time they are above 50F (as shown in the gauge) they have decent grip. At 70F they have excellent grip for the street in the dry.

[SwankPeRFection]

Originally Posted by M4theWIN1

Sport+ turns off traction control?? What are you even talking about?! Traction control is fully on no matter what setting you’re in until manually turned off.

First of all, lean to quote and second…. Stability control, traction control… same shit different day. Stability control is Off in Sport+ and you get the dumb shit the OP got. Fucking everyone I see get in a M puts the damn thing in Sport+ and wraps it around something sooner or later. Dare I say, it’s misleading because people tend to think it’s better than Sport and don’t treat it with respect. Winter conditions or rain you have no business traveling in Sport+.

[M2siast]

Originally Posted by SwankPeRFection

First of all, lean to quote and second…. Stability control, traction control… same shit different day. Stability control is Off in Sport+ and you get the dumb shit the OP got. Fucking everyone I see get in a M puts the damn thing in Sport+ and wraps it around something sooner or later. Dare I say, it’s misleading because people tend to think it’s better than Sport and don’t treat it with respect. Winter conditions or rain you have no business traveling in Sport+.

He’s right though, sport and sport+ are just more sensitive accelerator pedals. They change nothing else in the car (traction and stability control remain on).
I agree the car is harder to modulate in Sport+, and if combined with traction control off, it becomes a menace. But you have to manually turn traction control off.

I also agree that most people always drive with some form of control off in their presets. I’m one of those people.

[ComingInHot]

Well you live and you learn. Emphasis on live.

Sad you lost your car but also grateful no one else was involved or hurt…think how much worse that would be. Count your blessings, learn and improve

[baron95]

Originally Posted by M2siast

While I agree tires have some traction, it’s patently false that star spec tires have more traction than winter tires.

Please. Read what you wrote. False? Under what conditions?

Are you disputing that there is a certain temperature on dry roads where a properly warmed PS4S will have more grip than a winter tire? That would be idiotic.

The only question is what the temperature is. You can only debate if it is 32F 35F or 40F.

No one is arguing against winter tires. I use them on any vehicle that will drive in the winter with any chance of surface precipitation or below 30F.

But many of us have multiple vehicles and only take our sports cars out in the winter for fun drives on sunny days with perfectly clean roads and above freezing temps. In that case winter tires offer benefits only in the first mile or two.

[SwankPeRFection]

Originally Posted by M2siast

He’s right though, sport and sport+ are just more sensitive accelerator pedals. They change nothing else in the car (traction and stability control remain on).
I agree the car is harder to modulate in Sport+, and if combined with traction control off, it becomes a menace. But you have to manually turn traction control off.

I also agree that most people always drive with some form of control off in their presets. I’m one of those people.

Sport+ has reduced traction and stability compared to Sport or Comfort. It’s not just responsiveness of the accelerator. No wonder so many people have this “black ice” problem. 🙄

[M2siast]

Originally Posted by SwankPeRFection

Sport+ has reduced traction and stability compared to Sport or Comfort. It’s not just responsiveness of the accelerator. No wonder so many people have this “black ice” problem. 🙄

No it doesn’t. I’m not sure where you’re getting this from, but you’re misinformed. You’ve had two people tell you already, go read the manual instead of listening to us and learn about your G8X.

Also funny how you can be wrong but still be sarcastic and call us bad drivers because we’re teaching you something you should know about your M3/M4.

[M2siast]

Originally Posted by baron95

Please. Read what you wrote. False? Under what conditions?

Are you disputing that there is a certain temperature on dry roads where a properly warmed PS4S will have more grip than a winter tire? That would be idiotic.

The only question is what the temperature is. You can only debate if it is 32F 35F or 40F.

No one is arguing against winter tires. I use them on any vehicle that will drive in the winter with any chance of surface precipitation or below 30F.

But many of us have multiple vehicles and only take our sports cars out in the winter for fun drives on sunny days with perfectly clean roads and above freezing temps. In that case winter tires offer benefits only in the first mile or two.

Apologies, I thought I was clear:
- A winter tire will have more traction than a summer tire in the winter.
- It’s impossible to get a tire up to temperature before getting on the road. So, traction is less. Whether you can get it up to temperature after a highway drive is irrelevant: you have to drive and get to the highway. During those times, you have less traction.
- we have zero comparison tests or data on star spec tires, we cannot conjecture and extrapolate based on the data you provided. Personal experience trumps a far conjecture to me.
And we know for a fact star spec tires are worse at being street tires than non-star spec tires… so I can believe if, head to head, they become less useful at a higher temperature (meaning, when it’s cold, it doesn’t have to be so cold for them to suck, and that they need more temperature to get traction). This matches my personal experience (with non-star spec tires, with star spec tires, and winter tires). When we have data comparing a star spec summer tire to a star spec performance winter tire, let us know. I personally reached out to Tyre Reviews requesting a comparison in the past, hopefully he can make some of these tests happen; I know he can’t choose what he gets to test.
- all of this is irrelevant in this thread. The road wasn’t dry, the car crashed. So, no conjectures are useful. It needs winter tires.

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by baron95

Please. Read what you wrote. False? Under what conditions?

Are you disputing that there is a certain temperature on dry roads where a properly warmed PS4S will have more grip than a winter tire? That would be idiotic.

It is more about the temp of the tire than ambient. If you garage the car in a climate controlled environment, it is a lot different than the car sitting outside in 30 degree weather.

There is grip at lower temps but you do need some heat in the tire. And the age of the tire will have a massive impact. Fresh PS4S will be a lot different in 30 degree weather than 3 year old PS4S.

I’ve found that the more times a PS4S is exposed to sub 40 degree temps, the worst they get in the cold.

New PS4s on a garaged car will be very different from 2 year old tires on a car kept outside.