[SwankPeRFection]

Originally Posted by Hit_Apex

Perhaps trying to avoid an NVH harmonic at idle given the solid/stiffer mounts.

Valid point given the CSL motor mounts. 👍

[alyabiev]

Originally Posted by SwankPeRFection

Nice! So question then because my info came from info that the guys at BM3 who had indicated their “free” base map for the CSL/CS they had listed didn’t include more than just boost changes, so perhaps that was either their quick answer to the question or perhaps incomplete. Anyway, the reason I asked is because I was originally going to just run the factory CSL map and TCU calibrations for a while on either a base M4 or a Comp until I had decided to burn my license on the Stage 2 map, if I went that route with downpipes. It’s interesting you were able to do the dump like that. Was this after an unlock or via other means? If you can’t or don’t want to answer, I understand… you can always DM me if you want to keep it on the down low.

Being a tuner I have access to base ROMs and CSL ROM files so it was just a matter of importing CSL file over one of base ones and look up the differences.

For a more deep comparison I’ll have to look for the changes between every base ROM and then compare it to CSL. It is possible that the base ROM I’ve used initially was used for different emissions and fuel quality region than the CSL one.

I can do the same thing with your exact ROM as well if you’d like - shoot me a PM for details on how to get it done😌

[Hit_Apex]

Originally Posted by alyabiev

Being a tuner I have access to base ROMs and CSL ROM files so it was just a matter of importing CSL file over one of base ones and look up the differences.

For a more deep comparison I’ll have to look for the changes between every base ROM and then compare it to CSL. It is possible that the base ROM I’ve used initially was used for different emissions and fuel quality region than the CSL one.

I can do the same thing with your exact ROM as well if you’d like - shoot me a PM for details on how to get it done😌

Thanks for adding your expertise. BP tends to have a shortage of facts at times

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by alyabiev

Informantion comes from me after a quick ROM comparison. Let me know if you want me to have a more detailed difference review.

Main Torque Limit values are set directly in DME per RPM points, max value is still at 650Nm. There are a couple of switches that can allow DME to skip any torque limit request from TCU but these are left unchanged.

I love it

He asked for a hammer, and you gave him a sledgy



I just have one question for all the folks who keep saying the difference is EASILY achievable with aftermarket add-ons - who by the way said it about the M2CS x2200, M5CS x870ish, M3 CS x2000ish, M4CSL x1000, and no doubt will say it about every other iterations as well .... and my question, as an uniformed owner of one M2CS & M4CSL, is this:

If it's so easy to do, say, an M4CSL with bolted on bits, why aren't there thousands of them done already?

I mean, collectively, BMW made around 6000 of these so-easy-to-make babies - I'm willing to bet $50 that you won't find half or even a quarter as many of the so-easy-to-make version floating about .... my guess is, they ain't so-easy-to-make after all.

I'll go one step further to recite an ancient saying: not all round objects constitute an orange. You could grab a base model 320i and change the engine and everything else, or an M3 and do the add-ons but you will never get an M3CS either way - DO YOU KNOW WHY? Because BMW didn't built it.

However, as a humble uninformed owner, I'm willing to be proven wrong and pay $50 for that displeasure.

MNoob, HudsonHornett, PLF69, Hit_Apex and any other current or former uninformed owners, what say you?

No offence intended by the uninformed bit - not my word

[PLF69]

I'll say an S58 is what it is is, they could bolt bigger turbos, enlarge the valves or whatever and it remains just the engine of the car. Take a 570S vs a 600LT, a GTS 4.0 vs a GT4, a Ferrai Scuderia vs regular whatever. Engine tuning is so dissected today I just don't find it as impressive as when I was younger. OEMs are so much better at it than in the 90s 00s too.

Where I am more impressed is chassis tuning, shock, sway bars, wheel size/tire size etc. This balance is such an art, very few aftermarket companies can claim to be able to approch what an OEM can do, mastering this part takes humongous ressources and can almost always never be replicated.

[MNoob]

I think it would be tough to reproduce the CSL experience with after market bolt-ons and a tune. Matt Farrah mentioned the same in a brief track review. BMW sprinkled a lot of pixie dust on the platform to come up with the CSL. It sounds different, feels different, drives different and I love it. To really reproduce it, I think you’d be more $ into it than just buying one (think IND, and I love what they did with the M2 and M3.)

That said, it takes nothing away from a base or comp G8X. I don’t agree that the CSL (and CS variants) make the base and comp lesser cars. In reality, they are better daily drivers and have way more potential depending on what your goals are.

[SwankPeRFection]

A lot of the sound outside comes from the muffler difference. Inside sound is all speaker bullshit. Listen, it’s not news that BMW started the CSL project by taking a base M4 and changing engine mounts, suspension components and diff mounts as well as I think springs and added carbon bits to lighten it and took out the rear seat. Tune was changed for both engine and trans, that’s well known. The engine and turbos and intake and downpipes are all the same, no differences. They added the more boxed in strut brace up front. There is a CSL parts thread for the part number differences from BMW for the specific CSL parts and a lot are in the suspension side of things.

Can you easily build your own CSL from a base or Comp M4? The answer is yes… can you do it for less or the same as the CSL price… close or it’s not really worth it. Hell, Stage 1 tunes make more power than the CSL factory tune. Some could argue that you can get a more comfortable variant than a CSL if you get a Comp with carbon buckets and keep your back seat but change out the suspension bits (front brace included) and get the hood and trunk lid. Don’t forget to put the CSL flash for chassis, TCU and ECU and enjoy. If that’s not raw enough, change out your engine mounts for the CSL solid ones and you’ll feel the same stuff through your bones. Now, there is a good chance sound deadening is much less in the CSL and that makes easy sense from a weight savings, but there is no magic differences in the engine hardware just like there isn’t any for any car that runs an S58. This is why I don’t get why people with an or considering an M2 or base M4 complain about lower HP/TQ figures. Maybe they don’t want to tune and run into warranty void issues, which would be a valid concern, but when the engine is the same, uncork it and save some money in the long run. Manufacturers are smart in the sense of using the same engines in different tuning states in different cars. As long as the hardware is the same, which in the case of THIS current gen S58, then it’s just the ECU keeping you back from the same power figures.

Expanding on the previous paragraph, this is exactly what the new M4 CS will be and really what the M3 CS is.

[SwankPeRFection]

Originally Posted by MadBimmeRad

I love it

He asked for a hammer, and you gave him a sledgy

Don’t look at it like that because I wasn’t calling him out on the matter. In fact, I’m happy and pleasantly surprised he shared what he shared because this sort of knowledge helps everyone in the community to have access to better tuning data on factory BMW calibrations. Who’s to say someone with a Comp wouldn’t want to just run CSL calibrations (which effectively gives them BMW level reliable factory peace of mind) while uncorking things without going full out aftermarket tuner OTS or custom maps? I’m sure there are some people out there who might be happy with just that. Knowing the full extent of all the differences between the ROMs of a base/Comp/CSL calibration is great info for everyone really and I’m thankful he shared it. Now I know more than I did yesterday. 😉

[r0wr]

Originally Posted by SwankPeRFection

Don’t really care about the old ones. In all honesty, I wasn’t into BMWs until this new S58 2021 and above engine/cars were released. In my opinion, all the stuff wrong with previous generations have been fixed. New engine is really a nice foundation with no current “realistic” weak points. In my opinion, it finally can be called the new gen 2JZGTE. 👍

No disagreement that the engine is great. Doesn’t change the fact that you were wrong about part of what you said.

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by MNoob

That said, it takes nothing away from a base or comp G8X. I don’t agree that the CSL (and CS variants) make the base and comp lesser cars. In reality, they are better daily drivers and have way more potential depending on what your goals are.

My point isn't to suggest G8X is less than, or inferior to CS/CSL - my point is that the reason I buy the CS/CSL isn't because I have too much money to burn - it's because the car is more than the sum of all it's parts.

I personally think the G8X is the finest ever BMW series since the first M3 came out close to 40 years ago.

It just so happens that I likes the pixie dust BMW uses a lot

Originally Posted by SwankPeRFection

Tune was changed for both engine and trans, that’s well known.
.....
Sound deadening is much less in the CSL and that makes easy sense from a weight savings, but there is no magic differences in the engine hardware just like there isn’t any for any car that runs an S58. This is why I don’t get [...]

There's a reason why some pay stupid money to have a meal in a 5-star Michelin restaurant and are willing to wait three months for the privilege of eating that food at a price that could feed a village for a month.

It requires neither imagination nor justification.

Originally Posted by SwankPeRFection

Don’t look at it like that because I wasn’t calling him out on the matter. In fact, I’m happy and pleasantly surprised he shared what he shared because this sort of knowledge helps everyone in the community to have access to better tuning data on factory BMW calibrations. .... Knowing the full extent of all the differences between the ROMs of a base/Comp/CSL calibration is great info for everyone really and I’m thankful he shared it. Now I know more than I did yesterday. 😉

That we share in common, knowledge is power, and knowledge shared is eternal power.

Thanks to you all

[MNoob]

Originally Posted by MadBimmeRad

My point isn't to suggest G8X is less than, or inferior to CS/CSL - my point is that the reason I buy the CS/CSL isn't because I have too much money to burn - it's because the car is more than the sum of all it's parts.

My bad. I was referring to some other posts with that last statement.

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by MNoob

My bad. I was referring to some other posts with that last statement.

Not necessary my friend

I think we're all think the same things in different ways

No dramas, just fun driving

[SwankPeRFection]

Originally Posted by r0wr

No disagreement that the engine is great. Doesn’t change the fact that you were wrong about part of what you said.

Well, in that case so were the guys at BM3, because that’s where the info came from.

[HudsonHornett]

Originally Posted by MadBimmeRad

I love it

He asked for a hammer, and you gave him a sledgy



I just have one question for all the folks who keep saying the difference is EASILY achievable with aftermarket add-ons - who by the way said it about the M2CS x2200, M5CS x870ish, M3 CS x2000ish, M4CSL x1000, and no doubt will say it about every other iterations as well .... and my question, as an uniformed owner of one M2CS & M4CSL, is this:

If it's so easy to do, say, an M4CSL with bolted on bits, why aren't there thousands of them done already?

I mean, collectively, BMW made around 6000 of these so-easy-to-make babies - I'm willing to bet $50 that you won't find half or even a quarter as many of the so-easy-to-make version floating about .... my guess is, they ain't so-easy-to-make after all.

I'll go one step further to recite an ancient saying: not all round objects constitute an orange. You could grab a base model 320i and change the engine and everything else, or an M3 and do the add-ons but you will never get an M3CS either way - DO YOU KNOW WHY? Because BMW didn't built it.

However, as a humble uninformed owner, I'm willing to be proven wrong and pay $50 for that displeasure.

MNoob, HudsonHornett, PLF69, Hit_Apex and any other current or former uninformed owners, what say you?

No offence intended by the uninformed bit - not my word

Haha - agree with every word you said. A modded car is NEVER going to be regarded in the same way as a manufacturer’s upgraded model because there’s a lot more that goes into building a car than just flashing the ECU. And as I said earlier in another thread, you need to be able to make decisions on how good a car is for yourself rather than what journos say / think.

The other day I read a post about the GT4RS. A former owner said it was rubbish but when he got it he said it was amazing. His views almost exactly in line with Steve Sutcliffe who said exactly the same things at almost exactly the same time. To me an example of somebody that can’t think for themselves. When my CSL eventually leaves, I’ll never be saying “OMG, so glad it’s gone, it was crap” I’ll likely be inconsolable because I don’t have it anymore!

[r0wr]

Originally Posted by SwankPeRFection

Well, in that case so were the guys at BM3, because that’s where the info came from.

Can’t you just admit you were wrong? Lol you got too much pride for yourself.

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by r0wr

Can’t you just admit you were wrong? Lol you got too much pride for yourself.

As considerate BimmerPost citizens, it is our pleasure to forgive and forget

Now, I've got a little pack of something in the microwave oven popping and crackling, called an M5 CS touring

Where did I put that magic wand again!?