[tallshortguy]

     Featured on BIMMERPOST.com

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/18/mazd...port-card.html

https://www.consumerreports.org/cars...best-vehicles/

Mazda, Subaru, and Porsche were again among the top brands.

Honda showed the most improvement, increasing 10 spots into the Top 5, aided by improved reliability. (All but two Hondas now have average reliability or better.) BMW also rose this year into the Top 5. A pair of gainers—Chrysler and Buick—made it into the Top 10 because of incremental improvements in their product lines and downward movement by rivals. The luxury brands Genesis and Lincoln registered the biggest drops, each because of subpar predicted reliability.

We compile the report card by looking at the Overall Score for each model, factoring in road-test performance, predicted reliability, owner satisfaction, and safety. Then we average all of them to come up with a brand Overall Score.

Mazda took the top spot this year and Alfa fell to last due to reliability falling significantly. BMW reliability and customer satisfaction seems to be about the same as last year.

Keep in mind this includes reliability, road score, customer satisfaction, and safety.

[chassis]

This list makes sense to me. BMW and Porsche have owners who like the vehicles and have reasonably agreeable relationships with the company and dealers.

On the other hand, Mercedes slipped to 21st place from 20th. Not surprising. What is surprising is that they weren't lower. Poor reliability, horrible and inconsistent dealer experience, and MB corporate reps with ice running through their veins. Not a good ownership experience.

[heavyD^2]

I haven't owned an MB but in my dealings with dealers I've always found them arrogant like they are selling Porsches when most of their lineup is equivalent to Audi and BMW. Is there dealer network like this everywhere?

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by stein_325i

Looks like JD Power Dependability awards also were released yesterday.

Porsche always seems to be top of these surveys no matter who does them. I 100% think they are the top of the game most consistently.

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

Porsche always seems to be top of these surveys no matter who does them. I 100% think they are the top of the game most consistently.

Weird thing to me is that most of their sales volume is SUV's that are for the most part Audi drivetrains/chassis and Audi always ranks considerably lower. I suppose Porsche does a better job in manufacturing their versions.

[chassis]

Agreed that Porsche is on their game lately.

Regarding MB dealer network, read mbworld. My conclusion is that most MB dealers are terrible. There are people who post about good dealer experiences, and these seem to be in the minority.

A frequent complaint about MB dealers, which also reflects on MB corporate, is that warranty defects are either flat out denied, or the dealer service department "can't reproduce/find the problem". It's a culture of not standing behind the problem-riddled product lineup.

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by chassis

This list makes sense to me. BMW and Porsche have owners who like the vehicles and have reasonably agreeable relationships with the company and dealers.

On the other hand, Mercedes slipped to 21st place from 20th. Not surprising. What is surprising is that they weren't lower. Poor reliability, horrible and inconsistent dealer experience, and MB corporate reps with ice running through their veins. Not a good ownership experience.

My brother leased a C300 last spring. The car has had never ending trips to the dealerships for issues. Granted most of them are build quality issues rather than something mechanical, but for a car with like 7,000 miles it's a disaster.

I swear BMW's 3-series in 2006 (E90) was a superior product than the C-class Mercedes produces today. The interior materials, driving dynamics, panel fitment/overall solidity, etc. it's not even close.

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

Weird thing to me is that most of their sales volume is SUV's that are for the most part Audi drivetrains/chassis and Audi always ranks considerably lower. I suppose Porsche does a better job in manufacturing their versions.

Great points. The same thing confuses me. Are vehicles like the Macan and Cayenne, both of which have a bit of Audi in them, actually reliable or is it all a farce? I always have a difficult time believing a German brand can produce reliable cars, but am certainly pleased to hear it.

[fastboatster]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

Great points. The same thing confuses me. Are vehicles like the Macan and Cayenne, both of which have a bit of Audi in them, actually reliable or is it all a farce? I always have a difficult time believing a German brand can produce reliable cars, but am certainly pleased to hear it.

Or those ratings are basically baloney. I wonder how that dependability rating is measured. If it’s based on what the owners are saying then I would not put too much stock into it.

[zx10guy]

In my case, my experience with an MB dealer was horrible before buying a car. I was in the market when the AMG CLA45 was first released. I wanted to at least test drive or sit in the car. Talked to a salesman at a local dealer. He said he was getting one delivered in a few days and that he'll give me a call. A few days go by. I call and leave a message for him to call me back. No call. I eventually check their online site and see said car showing up in their inventory. Call again and leave a message. No call back.

So that's when I said F' them and went to a BMW dealership where I ended up with my 135i. Don't know what the deal was. Maybe he got turned off that I was intending on ordering one with the specific options I wanted.

[hdahman]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

I haven't owned an MB but in my dealings with dealers I've always found them arrogant like they are selling Porsches when most of their lineup is equivalent to Audi and BMW. Is there dealer network like this everywhere?

I live in NJ and all dealerships I have visited BMW and Audis were all bad experiences. Not interested in anything other than MSRP. They won't let you drive the good cars unless you are going to buy it.
What if I am serious buyer but would like to try different models to build an opinion on what to buy?? They don't seem to understand!! Ended up getting one Out of state. Bottom line very difficult to find a good dealer regardless of brand.

[Sedan_Clan]

I, too, sense more arrogance at Mercedes dealerships. BMW dealership experiences have always been significantly better.

[KaptainKloss]

Originally Posted by hdahman

I live in NJ and all dealerships I have visited BMW and Audis were all bad experiences. Not interested in anything other than MSRP. They won't let you drive the good cars unless you are going to buy it.
What if I am serious buyer but would like to try different models to build an opinion on what to buy?? They don't seem to understand!! Ended up getting one Out of state. Bottom line very difficult to find a good dealer regardless of brand.

NJ dealerships are owned by idiots who think they're doing their customers such big favors. They will not budge on price, even if you show them a better competitive offer. If your pockets are brimming with cash or you're a non-confrontational person by nature, buy one from a NJ dealership. I think the larger, corporate dealerships have better customer service since they have more skin in the game.

[Fear-Mongrel]

I considered a new MB once. Went to the dealer in nice clothes, shaved, showered. They wouldn’t let me test drive anything without pulling a credit report first. Wasn’t even trying to buy an AMG or anything. They were willing to let me walk the lot, but otherwise no credit report no service. I walked out.

[KennyFSU]

Nice, having owned 3 Mazdas in the past, I can attest to their reliability (NB Miata sold at 235k problem-free miles). Also owned a BRZ that was great.

[Game]

Originally Posted by stein_325i

Looks like JD Power Dependability awards also were released yesterday.

Land Rover

[AlexFL]

MB is just in a sad state right now.

[JCLBoston]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

My brother leased a C300 last spring. The car has had never ending trips to the dealerships for issues. Granted most of them are build quality issues rather than something mechanical, but for a car with like 7,000 miles it's a disaster.

I swear BMW's 3-series in 2006 (E90) was a superior product than the C-class Mercedes produces today. The interior materials, driving dynamics, panel fitment/overall solidity, etc. it's not even close.

C classes for the US market are built in Alabama.. could be something about that.

But even beyond where they're built, I've noticed more discussion re: cheap interior fit and creaks and such on MB's lately.

[reward72]

Originally Posted by AlexFL

MB is just in a sad state right now.

Agreed.

I really don't know what to buy next. Mercedes C-class is going all 4 cylinders and are less reliable than ever. Alfas are sexy but scary unreliable. Most Audis are boring to drive. Jaguars have lost their cachet (except the F-Type). BMWs are getting uglier and uglier. Porsches are too expensive. Lexus have some interesting products, the new IS500 is pretty cool, but they are so damn ugly. Who else offers sporty RWD sedans/coupes? I'm not ready to go electric yet.

I'll probably get the next M2. That or a Supra if it's ever offered with a manual.

[JCLBoston]

As far as dealership experiences go, I agree it depends greatly on the individual dealership and not the brand. I know I would never again step foot into a particular BMW dealership in Boston. Completely arrogant and weasel-like cucks and has been consistently the case over time. Makes me feel greasy just thinking about them. On the other hand, I really enjoy working with the BMW dealership that I have used for years now. I've also had really good experiences at certain MB dealers.

[bmwdrive]

Why does Tesla have its own separate line in the graph? They don't meet "survey criteria"? Huh?

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by reward72

Agreed.

I really don't know what to buy next. Mercedes C-class is going all 4 cylinders and are less reliable than ever. Alfas are sexy but scary unreliable. Most Audis are boring to drive. Jaguars have lost their cachet (except the F-Type). BMWs are getting uglier and uglier. Porsches are too expensive. Lexus have some interesting products, the new IS500 is pretty cool, but they are so damn ugly. Who else offers sporty RWD sedans/coupes? I'm not ready to go electric yet.

I'll probably get the next M2. That or a Supra if it's ever offered with a manual.

I feel similarly. The 3-series hasn't driven like a 3-series in 9 years, the C-class and A4 are whatever, the IS is on the sporty side but I can't get over that dated interior, and the Giulia does not offer a mid-level engine in the 300hp range. The options are to either buckle up for an absurdly expensive Porsche or opt for an M2, Supra, or Mustang GT.

The Macan S is somewhat reasonably priced and is a hoot to drive, better than most "sport" sedans honestly, but you'd have to put up with owning a crossover. I like sitting low and knowing the dimensions of my car.