[Transfer]

Originally Posted by jmg

A drag race is literally using one section of a real track. It's like the kiddie slopes at the ski resort. It's flat, short, featureless, you just kind of pizza and French fries your padded butt harmlessly to the end then stop and get on the little conveyer belt that takes you to the start of the bunny slope again. A race track is like the mountain the bunny slope is on. Yes, you go straight, but there's also turns and elevation changes, chicanes, double apexes, banked turns etc. And it's much much longer than a 1/4 mile and isn't over in 9-15 seconds.

Take Golf. There's the driving range and there's the Golf Course. The driving range is fun and it's great for practice, but it's just one aspect of golf.

But seriously I can appreciate the skill and passion put into drag racing. In the end, I'm for anything we do to enjoy these cars. I just don't want to assume that what I want out of a car is the same as everyone else and vice versa. If 1/4 miles are important to people, great, have fun. It's not important to me unless it does the dozens of other things I want a performance car to do. I don't need a one truck pony like a Dodge Demon. That's not in my wheelhouse.

I give no shits about drag racing but C&D 1/4 mile times are a good metric for general speed. I will be surprised if the G8x is not less than 11 sec 1/4 mi by their measure and it will handle the rest of the track as well or better than F8x, especially in AWD. This is the M version of a GTR but should have a lot more character.

[M3AWD]

Originally Posted by Transfer

I give no shits about drag racing but C&D 1/4 mile times are a good metric for general speed. I will be surprised if the G8x is not less than 11 sec 1/4 mi by their measure and it will handle the rest of the track as well or better than F8x, especially in AWD. This is the M version of a GTR but should have a lot more character.

Sub 11sec stock is highly unlikely considering the M5 managed 10.9sec, M5C 11.0sec and M8C 10.7sec in C&D tests. We should expect low 11's for the G8x AWD.

[SickGTR]

Originally Posted by jmg

A drag race is literally using one section of a real track. It's like the kiddie slopes at the ski resort. It's flat, short, featureless, you just kind of pizza and French fries your padded butt harmlessly to the end then stop and get on the little conveyer belt that takes you to the start of the bunny slope again. A race track is like the mountain the bunny slope is on. Yes, you go straight, but there's also turns and elevation changes, chicanes, double apexes, banked turns etc. And it's much much longer than a 1/4 mile and isn't over in 9-15 seconds.

Take Golf. There's the driving range and there's the Golf Course. The driving range is fun and it's great for practice, but it's just one aspect of golf.

But seriously I can appreciate the skill and passion put into drag racing. In the end, I'm for anything we do to enjoy these cars. I just don't want to assume that what I want out of a car is the same as everyone else and vice versa. If 1/4 miles are important to people, great, have fun. It's not important to me unless it does the dozens of other things I want a performance car to do. I don't need a one truck pony like a Dodge Demon. That's not in my wheelhouse.

I would assume anyone who will be buying their car for road course will be getting Carbon breaks?

[jmg]

Originally Posted by SickGTR

I would assume anyone who will be buying their car for road course will be getting Carbon breaks?

Not always, CCBs are expensive for repeated track use. 6 track day a year and I think they are excellent, but if you go once or twice a month it's better to swap them out. One CCB rotor is $4k.

[Straight6Dave]

Originally Posted by SickGTR

I would assume anyone who will be buying their car for road course will be getting Carbon breaks?

I’m not sure who the carbon brakes are for other than people who just have to tick every option box.

For light track duty, mostly street cars the main benefit is less brake dust. Replacement cost is absolutely insane and doesn’t justify having slightly less fade.

For people who are putting in tons of track time, the price of consumables is something that’s definitely always top of mind. The kind of person who has the money to a track a GT3 wont care but the M3/4 crowd probably doesn’t want to do $15k pads and rotors every couple of years.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by Straight6Dave

I’m not sure who the carbon brakes are for other than people who just have to tick every option box.

For BMW M school...more run time per car each day equal more $$$.
Safer as well with less fade surprises.

Other than that I agree with you 100%.

[ItsABlueG82]

I may be in the minority here, which I sure I am, but I guess I don't really care about 9 sec 1/4 miles.

I just put in my order for my RWD G82

I think the G8x will be an incredible car and will have the capability to go extremely fast, but I don't really plan on ever driving it that way, which is why I'm sticking with an RWD build. Maybe I'm crazy but for whatever reason the AWD build doesn't do it for me. Launch control, traction, and all of that will no doubt be outstanding, but I would rather drive the car then have it drive me...which is what I feel like AWD will bring. I guess to me BMW is not AWD...

I fell in love with BMW M series, because they were RWD and not the Audi's (and such) of the world.

But being the realist I am, I also know that the direction that sports cars will be going is AWD, especially with the advent of crazy fast EVs... which is why I guess I'm also opting for RWD, as it will be the end of an era...

Anyway...that's all I got lol

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by SickGTR

I would assume anyone who will be buying their car for road course will be getting Carbon breaks?

Why would carbon break on a road course ?

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Transfer

I give no shits about drag racing but C&D 1/4 mile times are a good metric for general speed. I will be surprised if the G8x is not less than 11 sec 1/4 mi by their measure and it will handle the rest of the track as well or better than F8x, especially in AWD. This is the M version of a GTR but should have a lot more character.

It's been discussed before. Quarter mile times are mostly about how well a car can launch, which matters little on road course where it is about how well a car can accelerate from a roll. Trap speed is more telling of the cars pulling power.

My guess is that the RWD G8Xcompetition will be in the high-11 to low-12 range.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Transfer

Car and Driver tested 2008 M3 at 12.6 through the 1/4 mile, 2015 M3 at 12.4, and 2020 X3M (~4500 lbs) at 11.6.

The G80 xDrive is going to mop the floor with F80.

That was the 6MT. The 2015 DCT they tested did 12.0 @ 119mph

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...c-test-review/

[jmg]

Originally Posted by Transfer

I give no shits about drag racing but C&D 1/4 mile times are a good metric for general speed. I will be surprised if the G8x is not less than 11 sec 1/4 mi by their measure and it will handle the rest of the track as well or better than F8x, especially in AWD. This is the M version of a GTR but should have a lot more character.

Standing 1/4 mile is only really relevant when your racing soccer moms to the Target so you can get the last can of lysol and pulling out of the pit to get on the track.

Regardless, I have little doubt that the G8X has the potential to be faster around the track. I have more doubt that it will be more engaging. I already find my M3 CS, the lightest production F80, to be too heavy and less fun to drive than something like a Cayman GTS, a slower, less powerful, but lighter sports car.

The AWD will have more drivetrain loss, and more weight for traction that it can't use in the straights. Where it will shine is coming out of the corner with more traction, where it will hurt is going into the corner with that added weight. I hope the G80 is underrated to fight that drivetrain loss and weight increase more effectively. Really though, all they had to do was not make the car any bigger and try to maintain mass from the F80, but for some reason everything has to get bigger and more ostentatious for the likes and subscribes.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by jmg

Where it will shine is coming out of the corner with more traction, where it will hurt is going into the corner with that added weight.

I can go along with saying that we don’t know if it’s going to hurt turn in yet and thereby ignoring pretty much every review from the press drives on the track where the front axle was hailed as the most noticeable improvement over the M4C...

What I won’t subscribe to is stating it as a fact that turn in will be worse. Weight in transition generate forces, there are ways to counter these forces out as adding grip, beefier roll bars, stiffer chassis, bigger brakes etc. To say that added weight automatically results in worse turn in is premature. Don’t get me wrong a lighter car is desirable of many reasons but some added weight might not be all that terrible depending on how well the car carries it and what improvements the weight comes with.

Also, seeing what M achieved with the M5cs I’m confident that an upcoming CS will be a pleasant surprise this time around for those seeking a car for more frequent tracking.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by solstice

I can go along with saying that we don't know if it's going to hurt turn in yet and thereby ignoring pretty much every review from the press drives on the track where the front axle was hailed as the most noticeable improvement over the M4C...

What I won't subscribe to is stating it as a fact that turn in will be worse. Weight in transition generate forces, there are ways to counter these forces out as adding grip, beefier roll bars, stiffer chassis, bigger brakes etc. To say that added weight automatically results in worse turn in is premature. Don't get me wrong a lighter car is desirable of many reasons but some added weight might not be all that terrible depending on how well the car carries it and what improvements the weight comes with.

Also, seeing what M achieved with the M5cs I'm confident that an upcoming CS will be a pleasant surprise this time around for those seeking a car for more frequent tracking.

Compared to what? I'm comparing it to a lighter version of itself (same engine, same gearing etc)

The same technology and engineering to improve turn in on the heavy AWD car can be applied to a lighter version of the same car. In this example, a lighter RWD M3/4 will handle better on turn in with the same tires, suspension, brakes, chassis etc as the AWD version simply because the only differing factor is weight.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by jmg

Compared to what? I'm comparing it to a lighter version of itself (same engine, same gearing etc)

The same technology and engineering to improve turn in on the heavy AWD car can be applied to a lighter version of the same car. In this example, a lighter RWD M3/4 will handle better on turn in with the same tires, suspension, brakes, chassis etc as the AWD version simply because the only differing factor is weight.

Good points, my argument got a bit off topic to weight add in general. In case of adding weight with no additional tuning turn in would be impacted. I’m still not on board with stating it as fact for the G8X though since we don’t know if BMW done some adjustments to the tuning of the AWD car. And even more on topic I’m rather confident that it will not in any significant way cancel out the impact of the traction advantage.

[SickGTR]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Why would carbon break on a road course ?

I don't do the road course. Seemed like all the dudes in the GTR forums who track their cars,say it's one of the best upgrades possible. Way lighter!!! Better handling ect ect.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by SickGTR

I don't do the road course. Seemed like all the dudes in the GTR forums who track their cars,say it's one of the best upgrades possible. Way lighter!!! Better handling ect ect.

I think he was joking. It's brake not break!

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by SickGTR

I don't do the road course. Seemed like all the dudes in the GTR forums who track their cars,say it's one of the best upgrades possible. Way lighter!!! Better handling ect ect.

See post above

Interesting though, because I do track quite a lot, and the vast majority of track rats of various brands use iron rotors, even swapping out their CCB for iron rotors when their cars were so equipped, because CCB are cost prohibitive for track use without providing a worthwhile performance benefit.

[SickGTR]

Originally Posted by jmg

I think he was joking. It's brake not break!

HA!! My bad. I honestly didn't know what the best BRAKES are. Just heard a bunch of talk about unsprung weight and some other things from guys who track would talk about. So for my knowledge, If money was not a concern, you would rather run iron rotors and not the carbon?

[jmg]

Originally Posted by SickGTR

HA!! My bad. I honestly didn't know what the best BRAKES are. Just heard a bunch of talk about unsprung weight and some other things from guys who track would talk about. So for my knowledge, If money was not a concern, you would rather run iron rotors and not the carbon?

I'm not rich enough to have done much research into CCB's for track use. I just stopped at the cost!

However, if I shit money I guess I would love the fact that they don't make brake dust and still deliver the performance.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by jmg

I'm not rich enough to have done much research into CCB's for track use. I just stopped at the cost!

However, if I shit money I guess I would love the fact that they don't make brake dust and still deliver the performance.

It's interresting to see that even the rather wealthy, wealthy enough to show up at track events in 1M$+ motorhome rigs with two GT3/2RS in a closed trailer and have the private jet waiting for them at the airport, still being smart with their money and run iron rotors .

[SickGTR]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

It's interresting to see that even the rather wealthy, wealthy enough to show up at track events in 1M$+ motorhome rigs with two GT3/2RS in a closed trailer and have the private jet waiting for them at the airport, still being smart with their money and run iron rotors .

GT2 RS is Sick!! Wish I could afford one

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by SickGTR

GT2 RS is Sick!! Wish I could afford one