View Poll Results: DCT or traditional AT? | |||
I prefer a DCT. | 235 | 60.57% | |
I prefer a traditional AT. | 32 | 8.25% | |
Either is fine with me. | 53 | 13.66% | |
I don't care. No manual, no purchase. | 68 | 17.53% | |
Voters: 388. You may not vote on this poll |
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05-12-2020, 05:31 PM | #265 | |
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Its pure cost cutting by BMW. |
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05-12-2020, 06:34 PM | #266 |
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It's not cost cutting. It's delivering what about 99% of the people want. How many of M3/M4 do you think see a track in their lifetime, let alone on a regular basis? Yes, a DCT would result in better lap times, but those cars will still be on a regular road with bumper to bumper traffic the vast majority of the time and the converter auto will be much better suited for this use case. I can assure you, they did think about which auto to put into the M3, but in the end it is as always with companies: They don't care about your (individual) feeling, they don't care too much about heritage or whatever bs, the only thing that matters is money. If they predict they will sell more cars by going with a converter auto than loosing sales from some people that want to track the car, you sure can bet they will put a converter auto into the M3. And if it's cheaper for BMW to do so, that's even better!
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05-12-2020, 06:57 PM | #267 | |
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05-12-2020, 07:52 PM | #268 | |
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The group of people who care about the DCT is a very, very small minority and I'm pretty sure they are outnumbered by the group who prefers a converter auto and 95% of the people will probably just not care or know any difference. |
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05-12-2020, 09:23 PM | #269 | |
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M cars should be for the minority that want ultimate performance. If you want auto buy M340i. This is just watered down M car. Whats next no more widebody lol I wish BMW would copy Porsche- build a car for the masses (911) but then offer a raw performance version a la GT3/GT3RS. |
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05-12-2020, 09:23 PM | #270 | |
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VW doesn't touch Porsche GT division or Lamborghini with their car developments because they understand strong, loyal enthusiast pool is what kept the brand identity. If BMW M is a mere "exaggeration" of BMWs instead of a separate entity like Markus Flasch said, that's fine. But they should stop referring back to old DTM cars that made them successful because M isn't making street legal DTM cars with their recent products. It is misleading to customers.
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05-12-2020, 10:33 PM | #271 | ||
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I think it was cool we got 2 generation of M cars (+ 1gen M2) with a DCT but BMW moving to those quick shifting zf's is not surprising me at all. ZF sells so many of these I would not be surprised they will be saving a considerable amount of $ on every car. As for M heritage, we are already far from it with electric steering, turbo engines with 500hp etc. Even long time 911 owners say the 997 is the last one that 'feels' like the all time famed 911. It's easy to observate how BMW went from special Motorsports derived regular series cars to M marketing money making models, the first X5M is proof they understood this a while ago and they continue building on it. Oh and yeah, they absolutely don't care what you think unless it has do to with buying a new car from them.
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05-12-2020, 11:00 PM | #272 |
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It's funny, the F90 M5 forum had (and still has) the same discussion about the loss of the DCT in the F10 M5 and the move to the ZF in the F90 M5.
I own an F90 M5. Let's face it, the ZF covers all the bases (track, highway, commuting, traffic, stop and go city grind) better than the DCT. And BMW is in the business of selling cars with the highest profit possible. So M cars get ZFs. Can you blame them? That said, I'll take my next M car with a 6-speed manual. G80 M3 Pure please.
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05-12-2020, 11:43 PM | #273 | |
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Reminds me of the Top Gear episode where James May showed up for a 1000 mile road trip across some country in a 911 GT3 RS and Clarkson/Hammond fell about laughing saying "you brought the wrong car". 200 miles later he was dripping with sweat and cursing every time the car hit a pothole. I will totally take that tradeoff. I am even happy daily driving a car with an "automated manual" sequential gearbox because it brings a smile to my face every time. There are one or two things I don't like about the M-DCT (e.g. lack of clutch control reversing up a hill to parallel park), but saying that "it's total trash" because you bought the wrong car just makes me laugh. ...and cry. Because BMW's marketing people listen to crap like that. I've said this before, but I really think that BMW should make the M340i the most expensive model in the range. (just add $10K to the price!). That way certain folks will be able to buy it and be happy, rather than buying an M and being sad. Last edited by pbar; 05-12-2020 at 11:57 PM.. |
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05-13-2020, 07:16 AM | #274 | |
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BMW is still a company, and the only thing that matters is $$$. They will sell so much more cars if going with a more road focused car than a track focused car. If you want track, you can still buy the M4 GT4, all the things you want and even more. The G80 is a road legal car, 99% of the time it will be on a road and it is not suprising at all, that BMW went with the converter auto. And to be fair, the ZF 8-speed is the best one available today, you're not loosing much compared to last gen DCT while gaining a load of comfort, which is what pretty much everyone outside this forum wants. You have to remember, this forum has a skewed view, of course you will find many more people here that would want to have a DCT, but believe me when I say BMW did listen to their customers and they did what their customers wanted: a converter auto. Probably in breach of my NDA now, but do you know what the #1 complaint was about the M3/M4? It was the transmission. And if you argue, that M is special, they don't care about money or sales numbers. No that's wrong, why do you think does M have more SUVs than sports cars? Why do you think the X3 is the most sold M car? If you want to understand the decision of a company on why they did something the way they did, I can guarantee you 99% of the time $$$ was the most important factor for that decision. Last edited by Flamingi; 05-13-2020 at 07:28 AM.. |
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05-13-2020, 08:08 AM | #275 | |
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05-13-2020, 08:28 AM | #276 | ||
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DCT may be faster, but many people don't notice it, or never get in position to get this advantage to work. I love my DCT and I have learned to work around and the S55 attached to it. I'll wait and see what the next M3/4 brings. |
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05-13-2020, 09:23 AM | #277 | |
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By doing this - BMW has watered down M cars and the prestige of that badge. Basically the loyal enthusiasts that cultivated the M brand now need to suffer so the general public can comfortably sit in traffic and show off their M badge. The point of M cars was for a small minority of buyers historically. It was only sold during some of the years of the regular models production cycle. Thats why those cars were special and sought after. The X model Ms are definitely not true M cars to me. Last edited by R N M; 05-13-2020 at 09:28 AM.. |
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05-13-2020, 09:32 AM | #278 | |
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The problem is the word enthusiast. By the definition of it, it's a small group of people. Once upon a time, M did cater for these, but that's long gone, at least since the X5M was introduced. Last edited by Flamingi; 05-13-2020 at 10:01 AM.. |
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05-13-2020, 12:54 PM | #279 | ||
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People want a car that can be fast on a straight line, than fast on the track. |
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05-13-2020, 12:57 PM | #280 | |||
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05-13-2020, 02:03 PM | #281 |
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05-13-2020, 03:53 PM | #282 |
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05-14-2020, 07:01 AM | #283 |
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If DCT was better, would Koenigsegg use an automatic?
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05-27-2020, 11:54 PM | #284 | |
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ZF8 doesn't match the character of rest of the car. I don't know what BMW is trying to achieve by reducing character from the car other than cost cutting. It's going to be a nice BMW, but it's not M3.
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05-28-2020, 12:46 AM | #285 | |
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05-28-2020, 01:10 AM | #286 | |
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Don't get too excited. The engine on the other hand with a stage 1 is epic.
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