[Covfefe]

The yellow one, and even the red concept to a lesser extent, look fantastic to me. The production M3/M4 leaked... pig ugly. Oh, and I think I found where they got the inspiration for the grill.

[m630]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I really like the Touring. How much did you pay for yours? Any photos of it?

....I luv the new ones and am fortunate to be able to drive many, but alas, Im an air cooled only fan so we don't need to get started on that discussion in this setting.

I gave up my F80 in jan and felt it was the last bespoke M I would buy. My tastes have changed and I desire different type of driving enjoyment than what M offers anymore, thus my decision to buy a daily driver X2m35 and then begin my search for my air-cooled baby. It may happen next spring, but no rush to be honest as it has to be the right car as it will never be sold. I did have my eye on a 997 GT3 for a while, but in the end I just luv the air cooled more, so I'll start with one and see where we go from there.

Originally Posted by solstice

997 GT3RS 4.0 has been my wet Porsche dream since it’s release. Unobtainable today unfortunately.

...heres a pix of the 911R next to I believe your dream car, I know of a few around (look close at the background of the 507 pix)

...and then some real deal air cooled RS action


Finally, to get back on topic and let SCOTT feel better, lets get back to grilles.

I find it funny that some defending the buck-teeth seem to harken back to a certain design from long long long ago on cars where long vertical grilles actually fit the physical space available.

BUT, perhaps we should look closely at the most beautiful design that BMW has offered and study these grilles, OKKK??!!!!
(i should have thought better, I had the 507 and Z8 next to each other and I cut off half of the Z8!!!! uggghh!!!!!)

Why oh why couldn't BMW use these beauty as the inspiration???

Fits beautifully and commands emotion.

Isn't it interesting that the 2 most beautiful BMWs ever made both have horizontal grilles??!!!! (SCOTT are you listening )

Horizontal all the way!!!

[J3LLY]

Uhm then it's a great cost for the G20 owners to change theirs shape to G80 LoL

[stein_325i]

An interesting take...


https://jalopnik.com/bmw-should-make...ler-1839298683

[solstice]

“...heres a pix of the 911R next to I believe your dream car”
Indeed

“ I know of a few around (look close at the background of the 507 pix)”
That looks more to be a “vanilla” 3.8 RS.

They are around but at around half a million it’s potato-potatoe
If I recall right Chris Harris owned one and thought he made out when he sold it for a bit more than he paid...

[MFNATIK]

Originally Posted by joshuastein55

An interesting take...


https://jalopnik.com/bmw-should-make...ler-1839298683

I saw that and completely agree that BMW should have gone wider not taller. The taller grilles form those original BMWs are ugly, but no one is gonna criticize a design from 100 years ago. No one from that era is even left to share their thoughts/opinions on it. Those grilles don't look right in today's automotive world where cars are low slung, sleek, and long bodied. BMWs from that era were tall and stout, unlike modern designs.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by MFNATIK

I saw that and completely agree that BMW should have gone wider not taller. The taller grilles form those original BMWs are ugly, but no one is gonna criticize a design from 100 years ago. No one from that era is even left to share their thoughts/opinions on it. Those grilles don't look right in today's automotive world where cars are low slung, sleek, and long bodied. BMWs from that era were tall and stout, unlike modern designs.

Too predictable and boring. BMW want a new design language not an evolved design language. A total break from current language is shocking to many and I’m sure that’s what they expected. Should they have gone for evolving the current language instead? Time will tell, my money is on a big fat NO!

The M3 is not a 911 which iconic status mainly stems from the shape of the car. That shape is what a 911 is and without it it’s not a 911. The M3 gets it iconic status mainly from it’s trackability, ergonomics, impressive engines, everyday usability and relative quality not the shape. There is no M3 shape and BMW take full advantage of it and change things up considerably between iterations. It’s still an M3 if it performs like one.

[Zeroblade]

I think ppl won't let go of their F8x anytime soon <.<

[trey100]

Originally Posted by Cortexiphan

BMW 309 (1935)


BMW 326 - First ever 4 door BMW (1938-1944)


BMW 328 (1936-1940)

All of these look miles better than this new atrocity. The new one is not a cohesive design.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by trey100

All of these look miles better than this new atrocity. The new one is not a cohesive design.

Are you referring to the concept or the leak? As for the leaked picture that this thread begin with I don’t see anything that is not cohesive. It looks perfectly symmetrical with cohesive angles between the grilles, the intake fins, bumper and the lip. Nothing seems out of place, awkward, distorted or otherwise weird. Go back and study the picture closely and tell me what you see as non-cohesive?

Also look at the depth/3D perception created by the 1st fin from the grille frame and the 2nd fin that is only partly visible. It looks like the 2nd starts high on the bumper and reaches out towards the front of the lip while the 1st fin is recessed on the lip and attached underneath the bumper. I can’t wait to see the rest of the aero together with the flared front fenders. It should look very aggressive.

[Covfefe]

Originally Posted by solstice

Are you referring to the concept or the leak? As for the leaked picture that this thread begin with I don’t see anything that is not cohesive. It looks perfectly symmetrical with cohesive angles between the grilles, the intake fins, bumper and the lip. Nothing seems out of place, awkward, distorted or otherwise weird. Go back and study the picture closely and tell me what you see as non-cohesive?

noTHing seEMs OuT OF PlACE, aWKwArD, DistorteD OR oTHErWise WeIRd

[Tacoma]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

This is a bit of a rant and I'm going to upset some posters but some people but I don't really care. I'm new to the BMW world but been a veteran of many, many different car forums. By far this forum has the most whiners and complainers I have ever seen. I always felt that the negative bias towards BMW owners was overblown but now I see that it's earned. Every forum of every type has a contingent of posters that complain about how everything was better in the past but Grumpy Old Man syndrome is rampant here. I shake my head at all the posters in constant misery that time didn't stand still at BMW. There's an old saying of; "Out with the old. In with the new." I'm hoping in this case that goes for a lot of owners as well as nobody really cares if any of you go on to other brands. You will all get replaced by new ones. If you hate it you hate it. I respect that but I also don't really care if you decide to move into a Mercedes, Audi, or Porsche because of this grille. In fact I'm perfectly fine with some of you moving to other forums where you can lament the past on a daily basis in front of another audience.
...

With due respect... you're full of it.

I've also been a member of many car forums going back to the 1990's when the Web was at its infancy and car forums were mostly usenet newsgroups that were an unmoderated free for all. So if you consider this forum "has the most whiners and complainers I have ever seen" then you are not a "a veteran of many, many different car forums" because you haven't seen much.

As for the whining claim, one man's whining is another man's wisdom so I'll add to the whining/wisdom and agree with the majority in trashing this swollen kidney grill.

And if you are actually a veteran of car forums, you'll also remember around 2001 when the E65 was introduced with its "Bangle Butt" that was loudly slammed so much that BMW had to do a quick LCI to rid of that butt.

So today's Swollen Kidney is reminiscent of the old Bangle Butt - the whining and complaining and all - and let's hope it follows the E65 route and we get a quick LCI refresh to rid of that swelling.

[The Choosey begger]

Originally Posted by Cortexiphan

BMW 309 (1935)


BMW 326 - First ever 4 door BMW (1938-1944)


BMW 328 (1936-1940)

Maybe Ford should use the Model A grill on a modern Ford, makes sense.

[AlpineWhite_SJ]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

I always felt that the negative bias towards BMW owners was overblown but now I see that it's earned..

Welcome! And I guess that now makes you an @$$hole by association, so feel free to stop using that turn signal

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by solstice

Too predictable and boring. BMW want a new design language not an evolved design language. A total break from current language is shocking to many and I’m sure that’s what they expected. Should they have gone for evolving the current language instead? Time will tell, my money is on a big fat NO!
The M3 is not a 911 which iconic status mainly stems from the shape of the car. That shape is what a 911 is and without it it’s not a 911. The M3 gets it iconic status mainly from it’s trackability, ergonomics, impressive engines, everyday usability and relative quality not the shape. There is no M3 shape and BMW take full advantage of it and change things up considerably between iterations. It’s still an M3 if it performs like one.

Let's not forget how Porsche got universally slammed by petrolheads when it decided to ditch the classic Porsche headlight clusters for a 'fried egg' design (designed by Harm Lagaay for the 986 Boxster) when moving on from 993 to 996 model. "Design ahead of its time" ? Not quite: as we all know, with the 911 successor (997) Porsche returned with a variation on the classic headlight design. The 'fried egg' design got sent into exile. And frankly speaking, after all these years, the 996 'fried egg' design still doesn't get lots of love. Most consider it a design mistake.

As reflected by the massive thumbs down reaction expressed by petrolheads in this long thread, BMW marketing will be required to work overtime to sell us the idea that the "New Coke" grilles (which can hardly be called 'kidneys' anymore) look better in real life and are optimal for functional purposes. And about the possible "ahead of its time" line: still to date, that line does not fare well either for the Chris Bangle rear end design of the E65 7-Series.

"Embrace the future - Be open-minded". Sure, but BMW cannot get away with throwing whatever at its potential customers. Disappointing sales figures will give them a wake-up call for a reality check and some soul-searching sessions. Front end grilles are the ultimate design icon of BMW cars, part of the BMW DNA - don't mess too much with that design feature. IMHO this oversized grille design madness is nothing less than an abomination - it's major uncool.

BMW management should check out the video below, and take notes, where the CEO of The Coca Cola Company announced in 1985 (July 11) in a modest "we screwed up" speech the decision to bring back the classic Coke as a result of massive outrage by consumers about the universally despised "New Coke" that got introduced only a couple of months before (see also here about the 77-day "New Coke" fiasco):

[Teutonic]

Looks like sh...
Actually, a shit looks better...

[Sedan_Clan]

You guys have to be fair in your assessments. IF the car is a flop, then the discussion about screwing up becomes valid. The car hasn't even been fully revealed nor has it hit dealers yet, and we're already talking about sales failures and taking a page out of Porsche and Coca Cola's "Swallowed Pride" playbook. I can understand people being dissatisfied with the new direction, but the cart is wayyyyyyy before the horse on this one.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by Artemis

BMW management should check out the video below, and take notes, where the CEO of The Coca Cola Company announced in 1985 (July 11) in a modest "we screwed up" speech

Well, there are 3 options at this point:

(1.) BMW is going with the leaked design, confident in their data showing it's going to, at worst, lead to modest sales growth.

(2.) BMW sees a problem coming and is working furiously to get to a more subdued "yellow car" design in place despite the high re-tooling costs; nevertheless they see the risk and know it'll never be cheaper than now.

(3.) They're hoping once released people will focus on the performance and it'll all work out (and if true they HAVE to deliver here - zero room for anything other than performance brilliance)

Since hope isn't a plan, let's us all hope it's #1 or #2 ...

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I can understand people being dissatisfied with the new direction, but the cart is wayyyyyyy before the horse on this one.

It seems like they're already taking a small future sales hit with people bailing now for other stuff not to mention the reputational risks

there's no way BMW prefers this kind of press to people gushing over the new design, so they better have data that proves this reaction wrong.

[LLNM4]

Not only the front guys.... the back is also fugly!
Lexus interbreeding with honda....the design doesn't flow

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

Well, there are 3 options at this point:

(1.) BMW is going with the leaked design, confident in their data showing it's going to, at worst, lead to modest sales growth.

(2.) BMW sees a problem coming and is working furiously to get to a more subdued "yellow car" design in place despite the high re-tooling costs; nevertheless they see the risk and know it'll never be cheaper than now.

(3.) They're hoping once released people will focus on the performance and it'll all work out (and if true they HAVE to deliver here - zero room for anything other than performance brilliance)

Since hope isn't a plan, let's us all hope it's #1 or #2 ...

It seems like they're already taking a small future sales hit with people bailing now for other stuff not to mention the reputational risks

there's no way BMW prefers this kind of press to people gushing over the new design, so they better have data that proves this reaction wrong.

An alternative theory......



...BMW is fully aware of itself as a motoring company, and fully aware that this new design language was going to be polarizing and provocative. It was going to turn traditional design expectations of the company on its head. They've been looking at this design for over two years. Do people really believe that a company like BMW didn't expect this knee jerk reaction!?!? That was rhetorical. The people that run BMW aren't idiots even if members of the forum enjoy believing that is the case. That's not to suggest that they hit the target every time, but much of what goes on behind the scenes we are not privy to. Whatever analytical prowess they've employed to get to this point in their design language across the model range has some merit.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

Well, there are 3 options at this point:
(1.) BMW is going with the leaked design, confident in their data showing it's going to, at worst, lead to modest sales growth.
(2.) BMW sees a problem coming and is working furiously to get to a more subdued "yellow car" design in place despite the high re-tooling costs; nevertheless they see the risk and know it'll never be cheaper than now.
(3.) They're hoping once released people will focus on the performance and it'll all work out (and if true they HAVE to deliver here - zero room for anything other than performance brilliance)
Since hope isn't a plan, so let's us all hope it's #1 or #2 ...

(4.) Escape route: make the car only available in a black color - that helps obscuring things a little bit.

Porsche opted for #3, convinced that it could get away with a 4-banger 718 and an obscure marketing reference about a forgotten 718 model of many decades ago ("that great Porsche car was a 4-cylinder too"). Well, judging by comments on dedicated car forums, the marketing did not quite convince the majority of petrolheads, despite the car's improved dynamics and performance. If you want to make a Porsche salesman nervous, ask about the 718 flat-4 sound - they will change subject to how good the car performs, because they know damn well that by nicking 2 cylinders, Porsche "stole its thunder".

And guess what: surprise-surprise, rumor has it that Porsche is currently scrambling for shoe-horning a 6-cyl back into a Boxster and a Cayman. Now how will most 718 owners (except for GT4 and Spyder owners: flat-6) feel when the 718 6-cyl Boxster/Cayman will be released, inevitably tanking the value of their 4-banger cars producing lawnmower sounds ?

As the CEO of The Coca Cola Company wisely concluded at the end of his 1985 speech in the video posted in my previous comment: "Our boss is the consumer".

Originally Posted by Colinv6

I’ve shown the above to a few people, both car and non car people, and they’ve unanimously disliked it, I’m not sure what BMW are currently thinking but with this grille and also the current economic uncertainty round the world, this could be the worst selling M3 ever.
People will still buy them yes, but I’ve never seen a forum react so unanimously in a negative way towards a new design. It’ll be interesting to see how it plays out.

If the G80 M3 pre-production stage is signed off, then the fate is sealed and the car is getting those "New Coke Grilles". No way back - "Challenger, go with throttle up"...

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

An alternative theory......
Whatever analytical prowess they've employed to get to this point in their design language across the model range has some merit.

Well, to be fair, that's not an alternative theory, it's more my option #3 with a some hope that it's option #1.

Your faith in BMW is great, however while none of the individuals are idiots, many times their collective deliveries are (anybody tried to use google hangouts / messaging apps on android lately? FYI, that pile of crap is about to get more stinky)

The reason is because many times big problems are broken up across teams ... they all do a great job at their piece (or not), but due to the complexity of the pieces, and getting them reassembled, things get missed ... like "yeah, we focus-grouped the fuck out of our core buyer persona - Option 88? this bitch is go!" "oh, did you also FG their girlfriends/wives?" "uh what? nobody told us to do that ..."

Stuff like that.

At the end of the day, of course BMW expected push-back, all re-design gets it ... the questions are, what data did they use? Did they have consistent leadership during the whole cycle? Are there power-plays or vanity projects at work? Did some sr exec stomp the data in favor of his wife's choice? (I've seen that a few times) Who knows?

What we do know is, based on these threads, they're already losing sales with the preview.

That's not their preference unless they have some massive predictive data set with all kinds of fancy Bayesian analytics running off a super-computer telling them huge new sales will start out with oodles of shitty press, and they believe it.

I can tell you, unless they pull out the yellow car on the reveal I'm out, and if I was in the market today, I've seen enough to pass. If other are like me, unless they specifically predicted and planned those losses, that's not good.

Can you imagine if there's no design change from the leak AND the car is not an over-the-top wow as a driver's car?