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      10-23-2019, 10:14 AM   #39
SYT_Shadow
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Drives: E90M/E92M/M4GTS/M4GT4/X5M
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Greenwich, CT

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///Mthusiast View Post
Why would anyone buy an M4 over a C8?

Genuine question. It's not practicality cause let's be honest, if you really care about having more than one passenger you're not going to buy an M4.

Interior quality? I'll give you that one, but just by a hair. American car makers have made huge strides in interior fit and finish in the past few years, while BMW interiors look absolutely the same as they did 4 years ago.

Don't even get me started on the looks. I think in the past it was a toss up. I truly think F8x and E9x gen M cars looked amazing; understated but aggressive. If it's going to look anything like the G80 prototype, it's gonna be an absolute turd in the styling department. Plus, BMW is not filling me with confidence given their latest abomination that is the 2GC.

]
With an opening statement like that I suspect I'm wasting time explaining it. But as the interwebs are around forever I'll break it out




The list is VERY long...


The M3 and M4 are mechanically identical, so you choose an M4 for aesthetics. So you'd really be comparing the C8 to both the M3 and M4.


Off the top of my head:

-4 or 5 seats vs 2. No matter how annoying it is to put passengers in the back of a coupe it is a lot easier than stuffing those passengers into the frunk of a C8 (picture that, please)

-As they weigh the same, many will prefer having the ability to carry 4/5 people over the 'dedicated sports car' that somehow is as much of a porker but has less trunk space and 2/3 people less capacity

-Because if all you cared about were 0-60 times you'd have a Tesla. I could care less that the C8 gets to 60 in under 3 seconds. And I'd bet the G80 AWD will also get there in under 3 seconds if ruling stoplights is your thing

-Because you can easily own a M3/4 as your only car. You can carry a twin mattress in the back if you bring down the seats. You can take your kids to school. It's pretty difficult to have any two seater as your only car

-Because most of the time we're driving in regular roads. So the added performance of the C8 weighs against the limitations a 2 door 2 seat sportscar have. I find the precision and feel of all controls and attention to detail of BMW vs GM during normal driving to be a strong proposition towards the M - but of course, perhaps you don't notice/appreciate the difference.

-Because we want normal steering wheels

-Because some of us know that mid engined cars are significantly harder to drive at the limit than front engined ones

-Because when I take an M3 in for service I can leave with a X3 m40i. Service is annoying enough without getting some piece of crap as my rental. I drive rentals often enough as I travel for work. No, thank you!

-Because Chevy engages in too much 'check the box itis'. Ohh now they have a DCT... but have you read the reviews? I'd happily bet money the 'automatic' of the G80 will still be better. The specific implementation of technology is as important as the tech itself!

-Because you can fit 4 tires in the back of an M3/4, so you can drive your kids to school during the week then throw some slicks on the car for the weekend track event. Without having to trailer and have a trailer+tow vehicle handy

-Because you can still get the M3/4 with a manual and you like manuals

-Because some recognize that the 'leaps and bounds' of advancement in making interiors not be horrible pieces of shit is just like Audi RS and their efforts to make their cars not be understeering pigs: it's just that, an effort. I recall reading how the C7 interior blahblahblah. Well now it's been out for years and people can recognize it is what it is

-Because I want to be able to turn off the dash screen at night and (shocker) still be able to change the volume/station/song without having the screen turn back on!

-Because the C7 Z51 overheated twice while a magazine had it and did a 'spirited mountain drive'. Not the Z06, the regular Z51 C7. Cars should not be able to be overheated on the street, period

-Because they released the C7 Z06 that heatsoaks after one hard lap. Then excused it because it doesn't have enough frontal area for proper cooling. If you can't refrigerate your 650hp car well, don't release it with 650hp. That they felt this was acceptable tells you a whole lot about Chevy

-Because I've read the Motortrend and Road&Track reviews, and don't want to buy a Z51 equipped C8 with "plowing understeer", supposedly dialed in on purpose because Chevy knows the car is now harder to handle due to being mid-engine. Don't remember that level of understeer from my time behind the wheel at the track with a cayman GT4 or at the street with a boxter...

-Because some don't need a wall separating them from their codriver. I guess if your codriver is a zombie it could come in handy, for all other cases no thank you


From mags that are openly stated fans:

That said, we’re left with a few impressions about the transmission that we think will endure even once it receives final production software. The good news is that the Corvette’s first-ever 8-speed dual-clutch automatic moves the car off the line smoothly, and shifts are executed with less of a delay than with the old 8-speed automatic. And then there’s the less-than-good news: we doubt, even once it’s in production tune, that the Tremec dual-clutch will respond to shift commands as quickly as the DCTs from Porsche, McLaren, or Lamborghini. Ditto with actual shift times. This transmission, at least in preproduction trim, seems a good ways off the best.

Pulling 1.03 g of skidpad grip seems fine—until you realize that the base C7 Z51 managed 1.08 g six years ago. And in that car, the tester’s notes didn’t complain of plowing understeer.

Since understeer can be interpreted as “stability,” several of our editors suspected that this handling characteristic may have been engineered in on purpose by GM to ensure that C8 buyers who have never driven a mid-engine car won’t immediately wrap it around a tree. I doubt this. The violent lifts, spazzy steering flicks, and brake-stabs required to make the Corvette rotate are at odds with the new car’s delicate feel.

The steering doesn’t communicate the handling limits either, neither changing in effort as the front tires fall into understeer nor, more disappointingly, coming alive if the rear end does starts to rotate.

GM’s chassis-tuning track record is coloring our impressions here, but the previous Corvette—as well as the Alpha-platform Camaro, ATS, and CTS—seem to defy the laws of physics at their handling limits. Even if they understeer mildly, those cars’ chassis respond to miniscule additional steering inputs or slight changes in throttle position even at the absolute handling limit, making them continually adjustable. The C8 Corvette doesn’t perform this same magic trick.

Yet. Maybe it’s just a matter of tuning, or tire selection. One GM insider hinted to us that future variants of the Corvette might be less one-dimensional at their handling limits. That will be a welcome upgrade for master-level drivers trained on exotic mid-engine cars. What’s also disappointing is that the 149-foot 70-to-0-mph braking performance stopped short of matching that first C7 Stingray’s 146-foot stop—to say nothing of the several later Stingrays we tested, which stopped as many as 13 feet sooner than that.

Last edited by SYT_Shadow; 10-23-2019 at 12:44 PM..
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